2010 NFL Preseason: Who Is Fighting For The Practice Squad?
by Brad Wells on Sep 2, 2010 10:23 AM EDT
in 2010 Colts Preseason
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PrintJohn Oehser (recently hired by Fanhouse, making the often dreary AOL product much more appealing) has a special up for Colts.com about certain players who are using the fourth and final preseason game as a last ditch, "This is basically my season for me right here" type of game.
For me, players like Javarris James, whose quote above accurately sums up the magnitude of this game for several 'bubble' players, are fighting for the practice squad. After an off-season of OTAs, training camp, and three preseason games, I'm fairly certain the Colts know who is on their 53 man roster. If there is an area that is somewhat fluid now, it's kick and punt returner. Pretty much everything else is likely set, especially when you consider that the Colts are not looking for any starters. They're looking for depth.
After the jump, we list the guys who really need to show something in this fourth game if they are to be considered for the team's practice squad.
Brandon James, WR and KR
He's off the active roster. I'm pretty much willing to bet money on that. I don't care what Jim Caldwell says regarding how 'wide open' the competition is for kick and punt returner. James is not it. In his first real taste of a pro level game, he made a terrible mental error and muffed a punt which was recovered by the opponent for a touchdown. James pretty much needs to go out there against the Bengals and make Devin Hester style plays to even be considered for the PS. Right now, his stone hands and his unreliable returning ability do not justify a roster or practice squad spot.
Ray Fisher, CB
Sort of in the same boat with James, but in slightly better position. Like James, Fisher muffed a punt in preseason. Unlike James, it wasn't a total and complete catastrophe. Fisher has also shown good flashes as a gunner and as a coverage corner. He offers good versatility, which is what the Colts are looking for in both active roster and PS players. Fisher very much is borderline active roster and practice squad. If he has a truly great game against the Bengals, he might give the coaches pause if they are thinking of cutting him.
Ricardo Mathews, DE
Showed a few things against the Packers, but in general this guy has simply been rather 'blah.' The team envisioned him as a rush end when they drafted him, but already players like John Chick and Eric Foster have proven better at the job. Mathews will likely see extended time against the Bengals. If he plays well, he's on the PS. If he doesn't, he'll likely just be cut.
Sam Giguere, WR
He's been a big disappointment in preseason. The Colts have invested a lot of time and energy in Giguere. Yet, he looks slow and hesitant as a returner and he drops lots of easy balls as a receiver. Giguere was brought into the fold in 2008, which means he could be retained on the PS. But, for someone like Giguere, he really should have made his 'jump' by now. Since he hasn't, why bother retaining him? He'll see lots of time at receiver tonight. If he plays well, maybe keep him on the PS in case their is an injury at wideout.
Players who are going to get cut regardless of how they play
These are guys who have underwhelmed during preseason, and stand next to no chance of making this team. I also do not think they'll make the PS, because they have played that poorly (or they are ineligible).
- Adam Terry: Knee injury is limiting him, maybe should retire
- Gijon Robinson: A tight end who cannot catch and a fullback who cannot block
- Mike Newton: Picking off Curtis Painter three times in a scrimmage does not guarantee you anything, especially when you suck playing coverage against real quarterbacks
- Curtis Painter: I'm sticking to my guns on this one. The Colts publicly maintain Painter is the back-up. However, Painter has been dreadful in preseason. Truly dreadful. If the Colts opt not to keep three quarterbacks, Painter should be the one to go. He's been a turnover machine in preseason, and turnovers are the one thing a quarterback cannot afford to commit.
Who are the players you see landing on the PS, or possibly playing well enough to make the 53?
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Wouldn't be surprised if 3 of your 4 "Players who are going to get cut regardless of how they play" make the team, at least 2
Although, I completely agree on Gijon. Terry, maybe.
But Newton will stick on the PS at least, if not regular season roster and there’s no way Painter’s 100% out like you say. They’re not bringing in a veteran back-up and they’re not going to trust Brandstater to run the offense in a worst-case scenario. Did Sorgi ever look good in pre-season? If so, I want to see the tape, because I don’t remember that happening ever.
Sorry, must disagree: I don't see how Terry even ranks a "maybe".
He’s been abused all preseason by guys smaller than him, and consistenly gets pushed farther into the pocket than even Pollak. There’s something wrong when you start on the outside of the RG and end up inside of him.
On top of that, I can think of at least one sack he allowed simply because he did nothing but backpedal right in to Painter.
Not trying to pick a fight here, but IMO I’d actually reverse the order: I think there’s a better chance of keeping Robinson than Terry. I’m all but certain we’re losing Gijon, yet I still think he’s got a better chance than Terry. Which shows you how low of an opinion I have on the guy.
------
"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."
If you mention Devin Hester and Brandon James.
Even Hester muffed a punt.
Ray Fisher needs a year of development. Hayden too was a WR, before moving to CB and he needed time to develop. Fisher will make the PS, he is a fast, hard-nosed player with potential and ball skills.
Ricardo Mathews missed some OTA and minicamp time because he didn’t have his degree. Also played in a 3-4 in college, and even in that, only one year. He needs more time too. After using a draft pick on him, I’m sure the Colts want to develop him. He is also a lot better, than Terrance Taylor was last year.
I will make you a bet
If the Colts cut painter, I’ll give you a thousand dollars and you can ban me.
If they don’t, you take a week vacation and let me write for the site.
Cookie Cookie Cookie starts with C!
by willyduer on Sep 2, 2010 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
I’m guessing BBS is suggesting Painter will get cut and Brandstater will be #2. That doesn’t make sense…they haven’t even given him the reps to evaluate that kind of decision, and when he was in, Brandstater didn’t look all that much better.
That would make as much sense as leaving starters in a game they don’t need to win to make the playoffs.
"My goal is to be the person my dog seems to think I am."
Painter stays
For me, what makes the thought of Painter getting cut so hard to swallow is that Polian and Caldwell have defended him so much recently, it seems unlikely that after a few weeks they admit to mistake in judgement. Doesn’t seem they roll that way.
"My goal is to be the person my dog seems to think I am."
What's the difference?
Manning goes down, does Painter lead us to the playoffs? Probably not. Does Brandstater? Probably not. Painter is more familiar with the offense, but that only matters if he’s helping Manning. I have no confidence in either unless they’re giving Manning a break. Some people get so upset over the very thought of Painter being cut, but neither Painter or Brandstater really give us much chance to win. So, honestly, what’s the difference? An L is an L.
I don’t think Painter will be cut either, but if they do, it won’t make any difference.
Gijon Robinson
It is not true that Gijon Robinson cannot block, he is one of the better blockers among the Colts TEs when compared to TEs like Tamme and Cloherty. He made a heck of a block for Addai’s TD run in the 49ers game. The problem is, Gijon has no upside, no explosion after the catch and not very good hands. It does not help that he whiffed a critical block in that 2008 Chargers playoff loss on that 3rd & 2 that forced us to punt and the Chargers tie the game and take us to OT and win.
We keep 4 TEs – Clark, Tamme and Eldridge are for certain.
Cloherty has been making catches and special teams plays, something Gijon has been a little short on. If an injury happens to Eldridge, we will have no one to fall back on for blocking purposes as a TE, that is the only reason Gijon has been on the squad, due to injury issues for Santi in the past to fill in as the blocking TE. It will be a risk we will take if we let go of Gijon but hopefully Eldridge does not follow the same trend as Santi and Utecht.
As we all know, according to Caldwell, the best ability is availability. No wonder Tim Jennings and Gijon Robinson saw so much playing time :-).
I don't agree, that we need Gijon to back up Eldrigde
If Gijon is on the field, the D knows, he isn’t a factor as a receiver. He pass blocks, run blocks or releases from the line if no rush is coming. You can do that with an extra OT or a converted FB (Foster, King, Cody Glenn…).
Eldridge has to catch a few more passes 15-20 yards downfield, so the D won’t know what’s coming.
And while Tamme is not a very good blocker, he is still better, than a WR. He is bulkier this year and played a lot of ST, so he might be a lot better as a blocker.
I think Fisher makes the active roster
for the reasons Ty46 states above. He’s got more upside than Rushing ever had. Isn’t James battling Guns and Taj Smith for WR5? In this battle James clearly has the upperhand, because of his ST versatility. So Fisher and B. James could both make the active roster. I think Ricardo mathews ends up on the practice squad. He’s got all the athletic tools to develop into starting caliber player. How many RBs will the Colts keep on the active roster? If I’m forced to choose between Baby James and Devin Moore… I choose Moore because of his special teams skills. Also, it’s hard not to root for the local kid.
"We ARE going to our own private island, Chris: it's called the State Fucking Fair!"
For me..
its even harder not to root for Edge’s cousin!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
I wouldn’t count on the Colts carrying a WR5. They didn’t last year. Fisher will likely be on the active roster for depth at CB. James is probably battling Moore for KR duty and at the moment Moore is ahead of him. If he doesn’t make the active roster I doubt James makes the PS either. Not worth trying to “develop” a KR.
by invisibulman on Sep 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I would put the odds at Curtis Painter getting cut somewhere around 1:20,000
Too much invested in him and the alternatives aren’t much better. The coaching staff and management know they are playing with fire and they appear comfortable with that arrangement.
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
-Peyton Manning
Painter is here to stay
I don’t see anyway the Colts get rid of Curtis Painter. They have entrusted him with the backup QB role for almost a year (since Sorgi got hurt). Plus, Polian and Caldwell always rave about how great his potential is. He won’t be cut. Unless the Colts can sign a cheap vet to back up #18, Painter shouldn’t be cut.
Javarris James for the PS squad.
I like the way he runs. Needs to learn how to pass protect.
Team
I think Fisher makes the team,if he gets put on the PS some team will pick him up. What some people may not know, Fisher at IU,only played 6 games at CB before he had a season ending injury, he converted from WR to CB his senior season. He was also a monster at returning the ball.
What I don’t understand? Why has Fisher gotten the least amount of oppurtunities to return kicks? The first kick return chance he got was againt GB and he broke one for 58 yards, that is best this preseason out of everyone!
Brandon James has clay hands and is to indecisive. Plus, he can only play one position, he sure as hell is going to make the team as a WR.
Devin Moore and Ray Fisher should have a battle tonight on returning kicks and punts. I say Devin should get PR job with Ray getting KR job. Plus, they both can play other positions.
Kelvin Hayden I think may be on the chopping block, Hayden is a step slower then everyone and has played incredibly stupid all preseason.
Painter will not get cut. Why? Becasue he knows the offense, yes, he has looked bad, but did Sorgi ever impress anyone for the 7 years he was here? I don’t think so.
Hayden will only be cut after the season, when his cap number
jumps from 7.8 million to 9. His play is worth maybe 5 million a year for a zone team, a lot less for a man team.
You are completely off on Painter
he has not looked god awful on preseason. I think you are putting way too much into the first game only and ignoring his performances in GB and Buf
by metal_militia on Sep 2, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for that bit of sanity...
I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who felt that way…No way Painter goes.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
Painter
He made two throws against the Bills that were good. The rest were crap. Against the Packers, he had an INT and two fumbles. for the 2010 preseason, Painter has thrown one TD, four INTs, and fumbled the ball three times.
He’s played awful. I respect your opinion, but honestly I have no idea what player you are watching to arrive at it. You clearly are not watching Curtis Painter. If it’s ‘insane’ to call a player ‘bad’ who throws 4 picks to only one touchdown over a three game stretch, I’m happy to be committed.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
yet over a 2 game stretch he has 1 TD for 1 INT
The 2 fumbles are completely debatable as to whose fault they are. In your stats you also conveniently leave out the drive in GB that he led down to the goal line when the Colts ran the ball in.
Painter has improved each time he has gone on the field. Which is exactly what the expectations for him should be. Calling his first game in the preseason dreadful seems fair, the whole preseason not so much.
Go back and watch the Green Bay game again. The more concerning QB play was Mannings. He was making terrible throws. Does that mean we should immediately bench him, of course not. It means that playing QB in the NFL is hard.
To cut Painter implies that there is a better QB on the roster. I have seen 0 evidence of this no matter how many people call for Brandstater.
by kasey_junk on Sep 2, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No you arent watching Curtis Painter
Cause if you did, you would have noticed that the fumbles and INT in the packers game were on his intended receiver and Center.
Adrian Martinez, the very same Center who botched the snap with Brandstater and Hiller at QB in the Buffalo game. Dont go putting blame on Painter for mistakes someone else commited.
by metal_militia on Sep 2, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I was not watching Curtis Painter....
for sure… every time he plays, my heart sank…. the expectation was so low for him that now he made like a couple of good throws and now he is “good”!
I am a very shallow female fan who likes to look at hotties…. and unless Branstater is given a chance (equal number of snaps and real games) to play, and then shows us that he sucks more than Painter does, I would still want to see a cute guy play rather than Painter….
Obviously if Brandstater, given equal playing times and game experience, plays badly ….. it does not matter how hot he is….. then Painter staying makes sense.
All these are prefaced upon me knowing the fact that the Colts will keep Painter regardless….. (i hope my instinct is wrong.. but sadly, yes, I feel that the Colts will keep Painter….)
If you see my smilieys, think of E.M.H. - our COLTs King of Smileys!
I hate wasting my first post on this reply…..but tell me how you are allowed the opportunity to write articles for this site? I think Bob Kravitz may be able to give a better view on the team.
I feel like Curtis Painter may have stolen your girlfriend or something. You don’t analyze his play very objectively.
by thinkb4typing on Sep 4, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you
for seeing that too
See Ball, Get Ball. Quarterback Has Ball, Sack Him.
8-19-2010 Hell froze over, Painter has perect passer rating
by 7_Painter's_First_Fan on Sep 2, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm surprised Blair White
hasn’t had more targets this preseason… There’s not a lot of tape on him I bet
"We ARE going to our own private island, Chris: it's called the State Fucking Fair!"
by naptown_ninja on Sep 2, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Target/catch
Blair White: 7/5
Taj Smith: 13/7
Sam Giguere: 8/3
I like Giguere, but the only position I want to see him is gunner.
Either Taj Smith or Blair White should win the 5th WR spot. I would give these two most snaps against the Bengals, and see, who does better. I wish Taj would be a CB. He has great physical attributes for that position and would not need to catch at a 70% rate.
Couple of things:
Painter WILL NOT BE CUT, no matter how much you hate/loath/abhor/etc him. No matter how much you think he’s a terrible QB, he really isn’t that bad and WILL be the back-up for the Colts. Get over it.
Brandon James makes ONE fucking mistake and the ball had an unfortunate bounce into the end zone and suddenly STONE HANDS AND UNRELIABLE RETURN ABILITY. I thought you were better than that to make jumps like that, but it seems like you go from one extreme to another fairly quickly, and its really annoying. Just because Fisher muffed in a different spot on the field and he’s not as bad because he had a good return against the Packers? Seriously, that is plain stupid. James has had great returns all pre-season, and he’s having trouble adjusting from RUNNING BACK to WIDE RECEIVER. It’s going to be an adjustment for him and I’m not surprised he’s dropping some passes. It’s a transition he’ll need time to adjust to.
I agree with the cuts, but I would add Giguere to that list. He’s done nothing at all for me to justify a roster spot for him. He rarely gets over 25 yards on a return, I haven’t seen him on Punts, I’m not sure if he was a gunner or not so I won’t comment on that, and as a WR he has been less than stellar.
don't disagree with you
But I assume that BBS’ reference to Stone Hands came from various people at the open training camps saying he wasn’t catching well in practice either.
I for one don’t know nor care who ends up being the returner. I think people are putting too much emphasis on the game Moore had cause the Bills special teams was atrocious. I also don’t think a muffed punt is an automatic dismissal.
It wasn't just that James muffed the punt
it was that he shouldn’t have tried to field it in the first place. Still I agree that fans make too much of the bad as well as too much of the good moments. That was just one moment. But you have to admit that Devin Moore put together a string a good moments in that Buffalo game
"We ARE going to our own private island, Chris: it's called the State Fucking Fair!"
by naptown_ninja on Sep 2, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
So,
B. James has caught 1 ball for 2 yards all preseason. You demonize Giguere for not getting more than 25 yards per return but B. James average is 24.3 (Giguere is 20.4, Moore is 32.3, and Fisher is 58 but that’s all in on return). On punts B. James 5 for 6.6 avg and a long of 19. Fisher is 3 for 4.7 avg and long of 11 and Moore is 2 for 25.5 and long of 49. By great returns maybe you mean exciting, but his numbers are around the same as the others.
Like I wrote above, 1 catch for 2 yards. Moore is 10 attempts for 52 yards 5.2 avg (duh) with a long of 22 rushing. Fisher has the same stats as Sanders 7 tkls 6 solo 1 assist and 1 FF.
Moore has been our best returner but is in a position we don’t need depth. Fisher has been an ok returner but plays a position we could use depth. B. James is in a stocked field of WRs and has been average on returns. James has potential, lots of it, but he hasn’t stood out returning and doesn’t play a position with a need for depth. I wouldn’t be upset at keeping him as WR5 (sorry Blair White), but I’m not sure it’s the best move.
One caveat
Moore didn’t play due to injury, I believe, against GB. I have no idea how serious it is so his play (or not playing) tonight could have a huge effect on B. James’ position.
BTW, Geno Atkins
had at least one sack in each of their 4 preseason games (including HOF game). It will be a big game for our interior OL.
So will there be a 5th WR or not?
White vs B. James. Obviously White is the superior wideout. Obviously B. James was drafted to return kicks.It’s a sticky situation… Put your GM hats on!
"We ARE going to our own private island, Chris: it's called the State Fucking Fair!"
I think it's in Moore's hands.
He has to know his best shot is returner. If he plays well tonight I think White, Fisher, and Moore all make the cut. But, we’ll see.
Usually, the last game of PS sucks, but we actually have a couple guys that could make the team tonight with their play. I’m kinda excited to watch the return game.
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