Adam Shefter: Colts Cut Tom Brandstater
by Brad Wells on Sep 4, 2010 1:09 PM EDT
in 2010 Colts News
Email
PrintAdam Shefter is reporting that Tom Brandstater has been cut by the Colts.
Obviously, this is a dumb move by Jim Caldwell and Bill Polian. Maybe they know more here.
Maybe.
But, it was pretty obvious, even to the people who supposedly 'don't know,' that Brandstater out-performed Curtis Painter. Considering that Brandstater had roughly two months to learn the offense and had to work with third and fourth string players, his numbers and overall production dwarfed Painter's. The Colts cut the better of the two quarterbacks. The numbers prove it. The tape proves it. Everything proves it.
As I suggested yesterday, this move wasn't about football. It's about pride, I guess.
Remember this line from Bill Polian?
You can get something from the practice field, but not everything. They don't keep score at practice. They only keep score when the lights go on.
Yep, it's a pretty meaningless statement.
With 'the lights on,' Brandstater pretty effectively smoked Painter. On the practice field, Brandstater pretty effectively smoked Painter. Yet, Painter is still employed and Brandstater isn't. Makes you think.
Why keep Painter? I don't know. He's isn't more talented and he isn't more effective. He is, however, a living symbol of Bill Polian's bullish handling of Week Sixteen last year. Is he keeping Painter just to stick it to the media? The fans? God, I hope not. But, with Polian, nothing surprises me.
In the end, it doesn't really matter because Peyton Manning is a robot. However, when Polian makes his often ridiculous claim that good back-up QBs never want to play in Indy because Peyton never gets hurt, remember that he and Jim Caldwell cut a pretty decent back-up option in Tom Brandstater for a pretty worthless back-up option named Curtis Painter.
Hopefully, Brandstater makes it to Indy's practice squad (if he's eligible).
Cue the screamers who complain I 'bash' Polian, even when he and his coach make head-scratching moves not many people can justify.
[UPDATE]:
Preseason 2010
Tom Brandstater
18-31, 212 yards, 4 TDs, 1 INT, 1 Fumble
Curtis Painter
29-56, 372 yards, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 3 Fumbles
Yep, total 'football' decision.
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As much as I love you BBS, I trust bill polian as a better player evalutor then yourself
so even though personally I thought Brandstater looked better, in Polian we trust.
Hank Baskett IS A WANKER
by ColtsUK on Sep 4, 2010 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Clearly Polian is the better evaluator of talent
But I believe BBS’ point is that Polian isn’t making the decision based on talent — his pride has him committed to an inferior player.
I hate this move
I mean if it is an issue of pride, why with Painter? I mean we have cut guys the same year we drafted em. We cut Ray Fisher. I mean what are they trying to prove?
Exactly, so it isnt pride
Polian cuts draft picks all the time, its pretty dumb to claim its pride rather then Polian seeing something we havent
Hank Baskett IS A WANKER
by ColtsUK on Sep 4, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of Hank Baskett (your sig)
I’ve been watching for his name to get tweated… I’m not usually the vindictive type, but i’ll make an exception for this guy.
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
Polian's bread and butter
is supposed to be his evaluation of skill players. He doesn’t want that reputation tarnished.
It's one thing to do decent against sporadic starters and 2nd stringers
Versus 3rd stringers, 4th stringers, and guys who are going to get cut no matter what.
he was also playing WITH
“3rd stringers, 4th stringers, and guys who are going to get cut no matter what”
Furthermore, he showed poise under pressure, the most important QB quality. Painter showed NONE. How does that make sense?
by indianalawyer on Sep 4, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe once they gave Painter the whole playbook
they now need to keep him , good or bad , if he is as intelligent as advertised ,maybe he has too much inside knowledge that the colts wont let get out their door that easy.. now the colts may be the hostage here..
if Painter does not get better during the season
i would think they will get rid of him during the offseason ..
not a dumb move
they both suck and will never be a starter in this league …..if the unthinkable were to happen they would go and sign a veteran anyways
by leebomb10 on Sep 4, 2010 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I like Brandstater too
But….
1) IIRC, you didn’t attend one single training camp session this year. How the heck do you know he smoked him on the practice field?
2) They’ve shown a willingness to cut players drafted that very same year, so they’re not stubbornly clinging to a pick.
3) For as good as Brandstater looked when the lights were on, it was against lesser competition.
4) Perhaps they know Brandy will re-sign to their practice squad.
5) Painter is a known quantity.
Now… what is known about that quantity isn’t very good, we can admit.
But we know he can throw a deep ball, is cheap, is still early in his development, and has a year in the system. So perhaps they’re being a tad stubborn about releasing a guy into whom they’ve put a bit of effort. THAT stubbornness I’d buy. Not one about the draft pick though.
We’re not privy to what goes on in meetings. Maybe Brandstater makes dumb mental errors, maybe he’s not that smart, maybe he doesn’t ask the right questions. Maybe he’s not working 1/10th as hard as Painter.
Maybe Peyton thinks Painter is easier to teach than Brandstater.
We simply don’t know.
So, maybe we should all chill a bit.
Cookie Cookie Cookie starts with C!
by willyduer on Sep 4, 2010 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
good points...
I don’t see “stubbornness” in keeping Painter. Manning is healthy, so the third qb is just a waste of roster space. I don’t like what I have seen from Painter, but a quarterback is an investment and we have put more time and playbook into Painter than Brandstater. I like what I have seen from Brandstater much more than Painter, but hey I understand the decision.
And I have no idea what cutting a 3rd quarterback has to do with Week 16 of last year. that is a head scratcher…
Go Colts!
by Marked Hoosier on Sep 4, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
For the record...
I did go to practice… many practices. Brandstater was a non-factor in practice, barely saw any time with the offense, and primarily was reserved to throwing to receivers on route-trees. Painter received the mass bulk of the snaps behind Manning, with Hiller taking twice or three times the snaps as Brandstater in the practices I attended. FWIW.
For the record
You can get something from the practice field, but not everything. They don’t keep score at practice. They only keep score when the lights go on.
Tom Brandstater
18-31, 212 yards, 4 TDs, 1 INT, 1 Fumble
Curtis Painter
29-56, 372 yards, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 3 Fumbles
Based on this ‘score’…
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
Umm?
I’m thinking you’ve already mentioned this. I didn’t even argue with you. I responded to someone else’s post. But if you want to go toe-to-toe with me based on stats, do whatever makes you feel good about your opinion. Painter had one horrible game. Following that performance, when receivers were catching the ball, he commanded the offense rather well. Painter went against first and second team defenses primarily. Brandstater against third stringers or worse. When he did take snaps against the better defenders, he was horrible. The stats are misleading.
By the way, if you are going to rely on stats to hammer home your point now, I don’t ever want to read on this blog again you defending a Colts player against statistical comparisons by others. And the Polian thing can be pounded all you want. The team has made a decision based on ability. Any other silly speculation is nothing more than speculation to support your amateur, by comparison, perspective. I do believe they have had a far greater opportunity than you or I to reach a conclusion. Suggesting hypocrisy, attacking credibility, of Polian or anyone else in the Colts management is silly.
Also, just to make it clear, I didn’t come on your blog and tell you what you could or couldn’t say. I didn’t even argue with your opinion, I let you have it. Your attempts to respond to a simple fact, that I attended practice and Brandstater was a non-factor in those practices, with some kind of “oh look, I still have the stats I’ve mentioned eight times,” seems rather silly. I was there, I saw what I saw, someone mentioned practices, so I thought I would share.
by bamock on Sep 4, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Silliness?
In the Kingdom of Fandom?
Unpossible!
The tension is so high in here you’d think we were in danger of being cut as fans.
thank god
A voice of reason….
IN POLIAN I TRUST
by colt44 on Sep 4, 2010 2:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
OK
You just keep clinging to that one quote as proof of everything in the absence of actual inside knowledge. Ignore the laundry list of external factors that could have influenced this. See how far that gets you.
And where in that quote does it say you learn EVERYTHING when the lights are on? Where does it say that the score that is kept outweighs all the somethings they learn on the practice field?
And you wonder why it’s tough for us to be civil sometimes. How about because when we post calm, semi-agreeing, rational posts speculating about that which we don’t know, you ignore it and go back to the same schtick we already responded to?
Cookie Cookie Cookie starts with C!
Any guesses as to what Painter's qb rating will be?
Will he break into the double digits this year?
I say 10.3.
am I the only one anxious??
many teams already down to 53.. I want to know our roster now :) i hope moore and white makes it
It's still early, but both appear to be safe.
With Guns cut and Taj hurt, seems like Blair is your #5. That makes me happy… Same with Moore; both Fisher and B James are gone. I think that leaves Moore as PR/KR.
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
Polian
Polian is a wizard and a genius.. But EVERYONE gets blinded by pride and makes mistakes..
People the numbers speak for themselves.. Painter was by far the worst backup.. Some act so blind by Polian that you think every decision he makes is right..
But the numbers speak for themselves and Polian just totally contradicted himself..
BBS is totally right on opinion..
by PeytonsForeHead on Sep 4, 2010 1:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
You dont make roster decisions
based on just pre season numbers.
You make it based on meetings, practices, pre season, finances and so on and so on.
Hank Baskett IS A WANKER
Just a thought...
Stats earned against a 1st string defense count more than stats earned against a 3rd string defense.
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
There should be an asterisk next to Painters stats
and next to it should be *-two INT’s were tipped passes from receivers who should caught the ball. Two fumbles were bad snaps from crappy center, Adrian Martinzez, who will be cut
Im not saying this because I think Painter is better than Brandstater
im saying this because not all of those Turnovers were his fault
by metal_militia on Sep 4, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
his actual stat line should be
Painter 1 TD 2 INT
by metal_militia on Sep 4, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you
I was one of the first to scream that Curtis needed to go away… but let’s be fair with the numbers, eh?
I still think Brandy passed the eye test that Curtis failed, but i wouldn’t use stats to compare them. Considering who they earned those stats against, it’s not apples-to-apples.
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
Brandstater
I have to say I’m disappointed that we didn’t at least keep him on he PS. I thought for sure that’s where he’d end up…there’s still a chance I guess we’ll see. As disappointing as Painter has been, I didn’t believe we’d cut him so I’m not suprised. Personally, I’m not ready to give up on him either.
IN POLIAN I TRUST
by colt44 on Sep 4, 2010 1:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The PS isn't set til tomorrow-ish
Anyone on the PS has to be cut first. Then it’s open season for all the teams to sign a guy before he commits to our PS in anything more than a handshake deal.
So don’t worry, his cut means nothing WRT the PS.
Yet.
Cookie Cookie Cookie starts with C!
QB
By the way.. God for bid Manning gets hurt.. But who would you rather see out there leading the team?
The numbers speak for themselves… And we already know from last season what happens when Painter is leading the team..
by PeytonsForeHead on Sep 4, 2010 1:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
HE ONLY THROWS TOUCHDOWNS!!!
Go Colts!
by Marked Hoosier on Sep 4, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Pat McAfee
I trust him throwing the ball more than Painter.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
Plus
after he throws a pick, he can tackle the guy.
Cookie Cookie Cookie starts with C!
by willyduer on Sep 4, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha... awesome.
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
I'd sooner see Reggie throwing passes.
He was terribly unlucky to have that pass picked last season.
ROFLMAO, Addai played QB in high school, so he knows what to do with the ball instead of just running it. Come to think of it: Addai is one hell of a player, he can run, pass protect a QB, catch the ball coming out the backfield, and seems to be well-versed as a QB, shit I wonder if he can return punts and kickoff.
But then again what more can you ask for?
can he cover man-to-man?
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
Addai was a running QB.
425 yards passing and 1,429 rushing as a senior. I’d probably hesitate to say he’s well-versed as a QB.
Anonymity breeds inhumanity. In simpler terms, don't be a troll.
neither
if peyton goes down i dont want either of them running the show…..i heard schefter hinting that the broncos may release brady quinn ……..if they do that wouldnt he be a better option than either one of them
Brady Quinn as a Colt??
I wouldn’t mind seeing that. I’ve like Quinn since his Notre Dame days. I think the guy has potential and wouldn’t mind seeing what he could do with a few seasons learning from the best QB in the league.
by IsThisNameTaken on Sep 4, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Because I like Brady Quinn? I didn’t say the guy was going to be a star in the league. I just said he has potential and that I would like to see what he can do. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to Crackers to do my set.
by IsThisNameTaken on Sep 4, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Never
No chance they’d take him. He’s the opposite of what the Colts look for in a person.
Cookie Cookie Cookie starts with C!
For sure.
I know it will never happen. I’ve tried to predict what the Colts are gonne do free agent wise and with the draft. I’m wrong ever time, thank God. Mr Polian seems to know what he is doing, with a few exceptions.
by IsThisNameTaken on Sep 4, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously
At the end of the day, I trust Caldwell’s judgment on the roster. However, I have truly searched and searched, trying to find some kind of justification to keep Painter over Brandstater. I haven’t found one. Not one.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
He could be better breaking down defenses.
I’m sure Manning probably prefers the backup that can help him prepare. That’s something we wouldn’t be privy to.
I hope that isn't the case
Back-up QBs should not be judged on that. They should be judged on how they can perform if Peyton Manninf cannot play.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
Depends on what you want your backup to do.
Honestly, the Colts seem resigned to failure if Manning goes down. Holcomb, Sorgi, Painter, Brandstater. None of these guys are going to come in and win games consistently and we don’t ever sign a good vet backup. I think the attitude is Manning or bust.
ummmm... Gatorade, Wheaties, and his Master Card
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
well...
i doubt Brandstater makes it to the practice squad because there are some teams out there that really need a quarterback capable of just not losing a game. You know, not throwing a lot of pics and fumbling snaps or hand-offs. this sucks i was excited about his performance this pre-season. who knows maybe if we had him last year we win one or both of those last two games. good luck tom
This thread gives me a headache.
I don’t know who it was that started this, but could everyone please stop stating that pride is clouding Polian’s judgment? That is one of the stupidest damn things I’ve ever heard. Not only is it just silly sounding, you have no evidence to support your crazy ass theory.
It’s also slightly annoying that people are freaking out about this as if Brandstater is just lost in the wind all of a sudden. People, do your homework from now on before commenting about Brandstater getting cut because there’s still a chance he’ll be signed to the practice squad. There might still be light at the end of the tunnel as far as him being a Colt, although, I don’t really care either way. All of the QBs who were/are on the roster aside from Peyton is a waste of a roster slot imo.
by KingRichard on Sep 4, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
truth believe in bill...
i mean seriously have we forgetten what it was like before pollian arrived? i always believe in bill!
GO HORSE 8 MORE DAYS!
I can see the point of people that would like to see more of Brandy, but put me in the camp that thought Painter looked better than Brandy in all but his first game. I know I’m not alone in thinking this. I don’t have any pride on the line, I didn’t draft Painter vs. Brandstater, I didn’t make any decisions about playing starters vs. the Jets.
So the choices are:
1. The 2 performed reasonably close to each other and therefore it’s not really a head scratcher that they kept the guy with more experience in the system.
2. Me along with everyone else who shares my view is dumb, and the only reason we are making the same call as the football pro’s is that the pro’s have given up on being professionals and are kow towing to Polian’s gigantic ego (which there is no evidence to support).
3. BBS likes Brandy a little more, but writing a rationale no nonsense article suggesting that doesn’t make for page views. Where as grinding his ax at Polian does.
The ONLY way this is a good move
Is if Painter is getting cut too and Polian has some inside info on a different backup QB from a different team getting cut that is better than both Colts backups. i.e. perhaps Leinart is getting cut and the Colts pick him up.
Chances of that being true? Nearly none. Brandstater should be out backup QB.
Dallas Clark: Some tight ends catch. Some block. Clark just owns.
Maybe...
it’s all part of Irsay/Polian’s master plan to get people to the stadium late in the season. The yes-we’re-gonna-tank-the-game-but-you-can-boo-the-hell-outta-Painter spectacular.
Possible trade
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2010/9/4/1669575/jason-lacanfora-colts-trade-for
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
As tired as I am
of hearing the “lights on” quote, it is valid and I’m pretty disappointed Brandstater was cut.
Dumbest decision by Polian
Tom Brandstater put up good numbers this preseason, especially against the Bengals, now why he was cut I don’t know but I can tell you this: It was Polian’s dumbest decision ever. Now Matt Leinhart was cut by Arizona so maybe he can bring him in to backup Manning (even though I will love to see that, I will not hold my breath for that to happen). What is it about Curtis Painter that keeps this kid in a Colts uniform? I was hoping to see Tom Brandstater develop more under Manning like Jim Sorgi has and lead the team after Manning retires (I hate the though of that, but it will happen eventually). Tom Brandstater has the potential to be very cerebral as Tom Brady ( I see so many parallels between the two, its not even funny. But damn you Bill for cutting a man who was potential to develop under the greatest QB ever.
I'm going to go out on a limb...
and suggest that the Sweet Pea Burns draft decision was way worse. That drafting Mike Pollack was way worse. Even letting Thornton go was worse. The Lilja vs Scott decision was worse and that is just off the top of my head.
Let’s keep some perspective people.
QB
Let us not forget… Tom Brady was a back up at one time… Till he got a chance to prove himself.. And then when he went down at the beginning of the season Castle step up and salvaged a season for NE… So yeah back ups are kind of a big deal.. Better to have a good one and not need him than to need a good back up and not have him……
Polian and Caldwell screwed up on this one..
by PeytonsForeHead on Sep 4, 2010 4:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The Colts
better hope they don’t have to go any games without Manning. Because if they do, they’re automatic losses with Painter taking snaps.
They're automatic losses with Brandy taking snaps as well.
In my mind they were automatic losses with Sorgi taking snaps and Kelly Holcombe taking snaps. So if you are arguing Brandy vs Painter it seems a non-issue. If you are arguing the way the Colts build your team, I’m ok with that.
What I'm saying is
that with Painter playing, my feeling is it’s always going to be a loss. I feel Brandstater could go a few games and maybe win 50% of them. This decision, in my humble opinion, is one of the most idiotic of the Polian era. As has already been pointed out, Brandstater has clearly outperformed Painter.
Colts 8-8 with Brandstater?
I don’t know about that.
ok
I mean I guess that you are entitled to your opinion.
As far as I’m concerned it has not been clearly pointed out that Brandstater outperformed Painter. I suppose you can argue that the Colts either A) don’t know how to evaluate qb or use the totally speculative B) Polian issued an edict from on high that Painter must make the team.
As far as idiotic decisions I’ve mentioned several in other posts that were way worse than this (Sweet Pea Burns and Mike Pollack are biggies). Once we have actual football news instead of all this I assume your perspective will come back.
OMG.....BBS is a whiny little baby
Again with this stuff? Really???
Someone turn the broken record off. Please. It’s compromising this otherwise decent site.
by thinkb4typing on Sep 4, 2010 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes I'm new to posting...
I’ve read for a while now, but never really caught on to this whining.
It reads more like a jealous high school kid, than an informed blogging fan.
by thinkb4typing on Sep 4, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I like your username.
you should consider it next time
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
Numbers, like hips, don't lie
Painter has stunk up the place everytime he’s played “under the lights”. It seems pretty simple: 4 YD and 1 INT> 1 TD and 4 INT.
"Hey, quit callin' the f@&%in' plays, alright?...When we call pass plays, BLOCK!" - #18
"Obviously, this is a dumb move by Jim Caldwell and Bill Polian. Maybe they know more here. Maybe."
LOLz, I kno, rite?
It’s totally ridiculous to think that the people who build the team know more about their own personnel than people from the interwebs.
Anonymity breeds inhumanity. In simpler terms, don't be a troll.
by linkish on Sep 4, 2010 7:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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