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Why BBS' conclusions are wrong.

Regarding BBS' article concerning the Bill Polian show:

1. It is not Jerry Hughes who fails to stay in his lane, but Triplett...Triplett is on Hughes' left, but then right before reaching Cromartie, Triplett runs behind and to the right of Hughes, taking him out of position.  Had he stayed to Hughes' right, he would have been in perfect position.

2. If Kavel Conner is the next David Thornton, then it is good-bye Philip Wheeler, not Clint Session.  Be logical, do we want to get rid of Wheeler or Session?  Plus, Thornton was strong-side, Session is weak-side...Wheeler was the starting strong-side linebacker...

3. Gonzalez is still under contract for next season, is healthy, and could be a difference maker in our offense...there is no reason to let him go...

Finally, the total number of yards rushing is really not important - yards per carry is.  And the Jets were at 4.4, which is about league average...the Colts D struggled in pass defense, just like it did vs. Jacksonville and Tennessee, which is not surprising considering we were missing our 1 and 2 CB's.  Imagine that game without Cromartie or Revis for the Jets...massacre.  If a team tries to run the ball 40-50 times they are going to have well over 100 yards of rushing...

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

Comment 58 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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Seriously

Thanks for how you worded this FanPost. Far too often, people write stuff about how I’m ‘wrong,’ and then throw in a bunch of crap about how I’m a hack, or a douchebag, or that I suck, etc.

With this, I totally and completely disagree with your opinions, and I question the logic behind them, but they were presented well and in a way that promotes discussion rather than thoughtless trolling.

So, again, thank you.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jan 11, 2011 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

REC^^

BBS – I very rarely agree with anything that you say….however…. I don’t agree with much my wife says either but I do value her opinion and perspective.

This is how people on this blog should discuss our Colts!!

by LickerdKickr on Jan 11, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Except that...

The points he stated were facts and not opinions outside of the final point about yards per rushing attempt being more important than total rushing yards. It’s futile to “completely disagree” with facts.

by radtad on Jan 12, 2011 5:51 AM EST up reply actions  

No they weren't

You are someone who confuses opinions with facts. I’m not going to debate the difference with you since you clearly don’t see them. Thanks for posting.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jan 12, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Just wondering...

What is the difference in this post? Why do you disagree?

Peyton Manning= Better.

by JesusNinja13 on Jan 12, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's Clear It Up Then

Triplett’s missed running lane – Fact
Conner and Thornton’s LB position – Fact
The addition of Gonzalez making a difference in the Offense – Fact
The importance of rushing yards per carry to yards per game – Opinion

by radtad on Jan 12, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Again

You truly do not understand facts and opinions, my friend.

Triplett missing running lane is an opinion. You truly don’t know who missed their lane. you have an opinion on who is is. Others think it was Jerry Hughes. Maybe someone thinks it was Santa Claus.

Regarding Thornton and Conner playing same position, that’s actually not a partial ‘fact.’ Thornton played both SAM and WILL for Colts. I don’t see why this is being brought up though. I never disagreed with anyone here about what position Kavel Conner plays.

Addition of Gonzo is, again, another opinion. Gonzo’s addition may or may not effect offense. In any case, it’s doubtful Gonzo is on this team next year. That too is an opinion. No one said it wasn’t.

Again, thanks for posting, but you don’t understand an opinion from a fact. Your you, ‘opinions’ are expressions of thought that disagree with your line of thinking, and that is not the definition of an opinion.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jan 12, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I have an idea

I’d like to know who blew which coverage lane on that kick, too, just as an outside observer.

Matt Bowen of the National Football Post was a career special team contributor (as well as defensive starter) who knows all the intricacies of proper lane designation in kick coverage units. He’s also a great columnist who breaks down the X’s and O’s particularly well and disseminates it for public consumption. Maybe you could use your pull to see if he could break down the play and see who blew what lane in depth, BigBlueShoe?

‘Tis just a thought, but it’d definitely make for an interesting discussion, especially since he could give an overview of the entire ST play, not just the respective roles of Triplett or Hughes.

As an aside – he has already looked at the play and says:

5. Cromartie’s kick return: How big was that? To take a kick back near mid-field in a two-minute situation to win the game is priceless. Cromartie presses the kick coverage, doesn’t hesitate and uses pure speed to attack an open lane. For Indy, that play is going to sit with them all offseason, because they didn’t attack their lanes and couldn’t get off of blocks. On top of that, great field position in a 2-minute situation changes the way you call plays from an offensive perspective. Great return.

To me, that says two things – he didn’t specifically name Hughes as a culprit, and the mention of an “open lane” suggests a team-wide issue, not just one guy. One guy by himself can’t shut down an ‘open lane’ – you need several in their correct spacings and of equal depth to blanket the lane. Finally, he critiques players for ‘not getting off their blocks’ – Hughes looks bad because he was downfield and potentially had a shot at Cromartie, but at least he got off his blocks. It seems the rest of the kick coverage unit didn’t, and while they don’t look as bad because they didn’t whiff, they didn’t even do the most elementary part of their job as a coverage player. At least Hughes did that.

Maybe if you asked him, Bowen could break it down even further and explain all the points he raised?

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 12, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

My pull

I have no pull with NFP.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jan 13, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe if you approach him as the head writer of SB.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Jan 13, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Well

While I’m sure he would do a great job analyzing the football footage, but I’d be just as interested if someone else were to look at the tape and offer their opinion. Conquer did so (I believe) in his FanPost.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jan 13, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Lecturing each other on facts and opinions, on SB. Now that's funny.

The definition of a fact is – something known to exist or have happened.

Whether or not someone missed a gap can be determined. (By the Colts coaching staff, I assume.) A fact by definition can be either true of false and can be disputed.

The unicorn is green. Is a fact. Subject to verification, but a fact none the less.

Facts are often equated with truth, falsely.

So 1 and 2 are examples of you guys disagreeing about facts.

Opinion are judgments or beliefs based on insufficient verifiable facts.

So 3 and 4 are opinions. (Tough to disagree a healthy Gonzo is a big upgrade over White, But I’m sure someone does.) I bet Gonzo is back next year , his cap hit is pretty low.

Regardless, 95% of the conflict on SB is caused by facts and opinions being presented as absolute truth. That’s a fact. (Which could be true or false.)

Let’s not even get into truth, blogs really aren’t conducive to such trivialities. If it is truth you seek, might I humbly suggest you take a philosophy class or find your nearest religious leader. Get back to us in 30 or 40 years and report your results.

Again, just my opinion.

So on the 18th day God created the Quarter Back, and his name is Peyton Manning.

by NoCuddleOffense on Jan 12, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions   4 recs

Ok, My Friend

The seam Cromartie exploited was to the left of Jerry Hughes. This is a fact.
Nate Triplett was aligned to the left of Hughes on the coverage team. This is a fact.
As a coach myself, I have never instructed nor have I witnessed a coverage unit that calls for a player to be responsible for a lane on the other side of another player. This again is a fact.
You stated since Polian believes Conner is the next David Thornton that would lead to the exit of Clint Session. Thornton and Conner (to this point) were both predominantly contributors at the SLB position whereas Session has contributed at the WLB position. The fact is Conner has been contributing at a position other than the one Session plays. The logic there does not fit.
Gonzalez’s value is very much disputable and each individual is entitled to his/her opinion of it. However, it is an absolute fact that his presence would affect (not effect there, friend) the offense. You could argue he would be a negative presence even but there is no denying he would have an effect on the Colts offense.
While we’re at it, there is no such thing as a “partial fact”, as you put it. A fact is by definition indisputable. It’s quite funny that the very premise you are attacking me on is one you don’t understand yourself.
Also you’re welcome for my posting here. I will gladly continue to do so despite your misguided attacks on me.

by radtad on Jan 12, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Let me clarify, even if only to confuse the matter.

Facts are disputable in the sense, they can be dis-proven. As an overused example at one time is was a fact that the earth was flat. Now, that fact is considered a false claim.

As to the Conner/Wheeler/Session thing. If the Colts follow usual pattern, they both are expendable and not likely to be signed when contracts are up. So the argument is moot. Sorry if I jump in to make a murky situation worse.

Again, just my opinion.

So on the 18th day God created the Quarter Back, and his name is Peyton Manning.

Again, just my opinion. - The Oracle at Delphi.

by NoCuddleOffense on Jan 12, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Facts

Facts are not disputable. This discussion is pointless, silly, and getting away from the FanPost ProfBeer made. I’m politely asking people to STOP ARGUING semantics because, quite honestly, it’s boring to read. An example of a boring, useless discussion is the asinine notion that ‘facts are debatable.’ If you are debating ‘facts’ with someone, you are either an idiot or the items you are debating with whoever are not facts.

I’m asking you nicely to drop it because you are making the same silly mistake others have made here: Confusing facts with opinions. That isn’t the fault of this blog. Our business is opinions. The fault is your own, and I’m tired of reading about it.

Move on, and stay on topic.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jan 13, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Could be worse

than the argument that suddenly turned into a debate about McDonald’s, Geography, and Hitler

No, I’m not lying. Funniest thing I’ve seen all week.

"I really don’t want to offend you, Bob, but I don’t read your column, I really don’t," - Peyton Manning

by 88steve on Jan 13, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Ugh

I know. Saw that thread.

I do try to stay out of most discussions and let them go where they may. However, all this silly arguing about what ‘facts’ are is a waste of time.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jan 13, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

More of a waste of time

than everything else that goes on here?

Peyton Manning= Better.

by JesusNinja13 on Jan 13, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd

"I really don’t want to offend you, Bob, but I don’t read your column, I really don’t," - Peyton Manning

by 88steve on Jan 13, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Oooooohhh....

Snap.

Peyton Manning= Better.

by JesusNinja13 on Jan 13, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

You my friend started the semantics argument.

I was just having a little fun, while trying to flesh it out. I apologize for “boring” you with my “asinine”, “useless” notions. I admit I am an “idiot”. I am just a dumb farmer who loves the Colts.

As far as staying on topic and moving along I did comment on the Conner/Wheeler/Session thing.

Thank you for being polite.
Go Colts!

So on the 18th day God created the Quarter Back, and his name is Peyton Manning.

Again, just my opinion. - The Oracle at Delphi.

by NoCuddleOffense on Jan 13, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I followed what you said and enjoyed the discussion. The semantics are important in this case, if we understood completely what you laid out, we could all just agree to disagree. But some people around here think logical thought are “asinine notion(s)” So we will continue to call some people here idiots because some people find understanding the root of why we are disagreeing “boring”.

by shep31 on Jan 14, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

This is my only blogging experience, so its takes me awhile to catch on to things. And I make a lot of rookie mistakes.

I used to get frustrated. But once I realized that blogging is simply a form of entertainment and should be treated as such things got better for me.

People come here with varying intentions. Once you realize not all are here for intelligent discussion it gets easier. You start to figure out who is serious and who is not.

If you want to fit it. State your opinion, insult, move on. Repeat as necessary.

So on the 18th day God created the Quarter Back, and his name is Peyton Manning.

Again, just my opinion. - The Oracle at Delphi.

by NoCuddleOffense on Jan 14, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

NoCuddleOffense, my post was directed at BBS not you.

by radtad on Jan 14, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

No worries, I got that.

As J-Ninj said mine was as well.

So on the 18th day God created the Quarter Back, and his name is Peyton Manning.

Again, just my opinion. - The Oracle at Delphi.

by NoCuddleOffense on Jan 14, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Outstanding

Sorry I didn’t catch that.

by radtad on Jan 14, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

just a clarification

Actually the addition of Gonzalez making an effect on offense is a fact. He will be in the game rather than another receiver, say Blair White. Whether or not that effect is positive or negative would be an opinion

by Colts609 on Jan 17, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait a second

What’s the difference between a fact and an opinion again?

by Naptime! on Jan 17, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Facts are the ones that the people with banhammer powers agree with.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 17, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Same thing, but different forum.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 18, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm staying out if it this time.

So on the 18th day God created the Quarter Back, and his name is Peyton Manning.

Again, just my opinion. - The Oracle at Delphi.

by NoCuddleOffense on Jan 17, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked my theory...

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 18, 2011 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

If it wasn't for the last point... I'd have had rec's all over this bad boy.

But on the last point, as Mr. Indianapolis Colts stated above, the rush defense contributed by opening up the pass defense, and allowed the Jets Offense to stay on the field for what seemed like eternity.

Peyton Manning= Better.

by JesusNinja13 on Jan 11, 2011 3:19 PM EST reply actions  

Not a D failure....but rather a "Coaching" failure

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree…however shopping his trade value could be interesting
4. I don’t think our D failed but rather we got out coached. Everyone could see Sanchize struggling mightily so of course they are going to run the ball to help him out. It just appeared to me that our DC didn’t make the necessary adjustments to our schemes (which seemed to be a theme throughout the year).

As much as you can blame our backups and PS players for not winning this game, I think it ultimately comes down to the same reason we lost the Super Bowl last year. Our Coaching staff got plain out coached!!

by LickerdKickr on Jan 11, 2011 3:32 PM EST reply actions  

Did you watch the game?

The Colts played to stop the run in the second half, often with a safety down in the box…
unfortunately, the Jets have 3 Pro Bowl players on their offensive line, two really good running backs, and…
we had two rookies at LB, our best run DT out of the game, and our second best run DT (Muir) hadn’t played in 3 weeks because of an injury…we didn’t tackle well, and the D-Line did not get enough push (consistently)…
Coaches are not responsible for tackling, taking the proper angles, or trying to fight through injuries…coaching on the defensive side of the ball was NOT to blame…

by ProfBeerMan on Jan 13, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

My take on these...

1. We can’t know for sure without seeing the actual ST playcall, so neither BBS nor ProfBeerMan can be vindicated unfortunately. If I were to synthesize PK’s observation and Polian’s thinly-veiled-criticism, I would probably surmise that Hughes was at fault on the coverage whether because he made a poor attempt at a tackle or was in the incorrect lane. Again, no one can no for sure what lane which player was supposed to be in without consulting Rycheleski. But I’m also a firm believer in “where there’s smoke, there’s fire.” Too many signs pointing to Hughes being at fault on the coverage (though anyone saying that would also have to admit, as I did in my breakdown, that Triplett also absolutely blew his chance at bringing down Cromartie too.)

2. I think you’ll be surprised at how much $$$ Session asks for and/or commands. I’m not sure it makes economic sense to keep him. The Colts didn’t really need him this year. Kavell Conner did a fine job replacing Session at WILL linebacker. I’m not sure you give a guy like Session $4-5 million/yr to come back when you could use that money on a free agent special teams ace or offensive linemen, etc. I see the Colts cutting Diem and Sanders to clear some cap space (assuming a new CBA is negotiated.) If you free up that money, you probably don’t re-invest it in an unnecessary element like Session. You invest it in an area of need.

3. Totally agree with this point. Gonzo is in the last year of his contract and his cap hit is very low. There is no harm in keeping him around, seeing how he does in OTAs, camp and preseason and then making a decision from there based on health and productivity. The Colts can’t have enough healthy wideouts and Blair White was evidence as to how difficult it is for a newcomer to pick up this offense. Gonzo at least gives them a guy who knows the playbook and, if healthy, can do his job and do it reasonably well. And if he doesn’t work out, you’re not out much money.

4. The run D failed because the front seven lost the second half battle. The Colts really missed Antonio Johnson and are still lacking at the DT position, whether folks want to admit that or not. It’s important that the Colts re-sign A. Johnson, because that at least gives them Mookie and Moala for next season. But the surest way to improve their run defense would be to land a DT at some point in this draft who can get penetration and push the pocket. They need a one-tech.

Poor coaching also resulted in run D failures. Coaches failed to yank Pat Angerer and replaced him with Tyjuan Hagler, which bothered me to no end as the game progressed. Everyone and their mom could see that Angerer was not getting the job done vs the run or pass, and yet they stuck with him. I don’t know why coaches treat Hagler like toxic waste, but he should have been in there. Maybe he would have helped, although one linebacker couldn’t counteract Dan Muir’s terrible DT play.

TL;DR run defense is not fixed and stats cannot convince me of this. They still need a DT and perhaps an upgrade at SAM (easier said than done, Angerer might be the best choice with an offseason to improve) to be a decent run defense.

Writer for Stampede Blue.

by Collin McCollough on Jan 12, 2011 1:04 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Something to note

I brought this up in the podcast I did with Matt: Why weren’t starters used on special teams, especially on that particular kickoff? Would you rather have Robert Mathis, Aaron Francisco, and Jacob Tamme covering that kick as opposed to Cornelius Brown, Nate Tripplett, and Jerry Hughes?

Just something to think about.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jan 13, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I agree with this.

1 billion percent.

Peyton Manning= Better.

by JesusNinja13 on Jan 13, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree

It was one of the points in my postgame recap/breakdown. I believe someone countered with “but they didn’t practice on coverage teams that week thus they wouldn’t know assignments/lanes.”

I thought about that for a second before I basically replied: “well, guys like Hughes and Triplett DID know assignments and lanes…and look what happened as a result.”

Totally agree, and I don’t even feel that’s just in retrospect. I expected them to do something unique on that kickoff, given the time remaining. But nope, standard kickoff, standard personnel, standard results.

Writer for Stampede Blue.

by Collin McCollough on Jan 13, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

hmmm, 60% of this teams wasn't in the NFL in October....

and you wanted to chance more high dollar players in the most injury producing facet of the game?
Facilnating. And this is all Caldwells fault? Intriguing.
Why WOULD you risk further injuries to your squad? To win one playoff game. At least you wouldn’t be one-and-out? No. I think this was the right decision.
If you are going to go anywhere in the playoffs, the players had to respond to BEING in the playoffs. Peyton earned his money… albeit the first four series on O sucked completely (i mean really, one yard flood routes on third and one? or how about the bubble screen that every team in the league now seems to know how to defend?). Until the last seven minutes of the game, the defense did its job. As for the play after the timeout… Coyer boinked that call. Why he would think run is beyond me. But then again, coaches don’t win games… players do. A group of great players will always find the way to win. The Jets made two clutch plays, they win. Sounds like the playoffs…

Lets go do what we do.

by Coltsince89 on Jan 13, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Because that kickoff coverage WAS the season.

They cover that, they win. Plain and simple. Yes, you absolutely risk playing competent players for that.

Writer for Stampede Blue.

by Collin McCollough on Jan 13, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s a lot of wisdom to letting the guys who practice kick coverage play kick coverage… In our case, the guys who are supposed to practice kick coverage were injured, resulting the the backup kick coverage getting injured, resulting in some “dudes off the street” playing kick coverage with a spring loaded recliner, an old tire, a couple of busted up used tacking dummies and everybody’s favorite draft pick, Jerry Hughes. Apparently, the old tire missed it’s lane and aimed the finger of blame at Hughes, knowing that local sports bloggers would attack what they see as the biggest draft bust in 46 years.

In short, that play was so important that Mr. Franchise, Peyton Manning himself should have been on coverage if he was one of the best 11 players available.

Oh, and a touchback would have been nice. Really. If you are going to belt one out of the endzone, this is the time to do so.

-- Life is to short to take everything serious. Especially sports blogs.

by indymike on Jan 13, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

But Manning wasn't one of the best 11 players available...

So… that’s kind of a moot point.

Peyton Manning= Better.

by JesusNinja13 on Jan 14, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Not enough bodies

is what that boils down to. The depth is so depleted that you can’t risk to lose another starter.

by metal_militia on Jan 14, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you even whatch the playoff game against the Jets?

Really, yards per carry is more important than total yards? Not when the majority of those yards are picked up in the second half offsetting the lack of rushing yards in the first half. Bottom line, our defense couldnt get off of the field in the second half because the Jets used their running game to keep Manning on the sideline. The inability to shut down the run renders Mathis and Freeney’s pass rush useless and causes safeties and corners to move up to defend the run making the play action pass an effective option.

by First Sergeant on Jan 18, 2011 11:27 AM EST reply actions  

um... not to be a nag but...

SAFETY, Top. We lost Francisco in the 1st Quarter. The program said the replacement (and I think Polian dug him up from a Wheaties box in Cleveland) was a safety. But the internet says he was always a CB. BL…. we had a Safety and a CB playin Safety.

Lets go do what we do.

by Coltsince89 on Jan 18, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

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