Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Indy 500: 'Greatest Spectacle In Racing' Set For Sunday

What people seem to forget about Bill's latest draft

Ok, I keep hearing about how bad the Polian's have drafted in the past few years and I think some people are way off base.  I think some people seem to forget . . . . 

2007 - Anthony Gonzalez

I know some people like to criticize this pick but this was one of the most obvious draft picks maybe in the past decade for the Colts.  Everyone knew we were going to take Gonzalez because he was so similar to Brandon Stockley and he was seen as the missing piece to make our offense great again.  The only other player even considered in this draft was Alan Branch and he has had 5 sacks since he came in the league.  If Gonzalez doesn't get hurt (which the organization couldn't have known) he would have been a solid draft pick.

Star-divide

2008 - None

2009 -  Donald Brown

Again, everyone knew we were going to draft a RB.  Of course, many people thought the pick would be Beanie Wells instead of Donald Brown.  I think it's easy to say Beanie has been a better back then Brown but Beanie isn't a great pass catcher.  He only has 229 receiving yards in the 2 1/2 years he has been in the league so I don't think he was a great fit for our offense.  You could also say Ziggy Hood was at least on the radar and that would have been a fairly good choice for our defense but not a slam dunk.

2010 - Jerry Hughes

I think there is no denying that Jerry Hughes to this point has been very disappointing, but several people have complained that we should have drafted Rodger Saffold (even Bill has said as much).  But, let's look at this selection a different way.  If I'm picking for the organization and I have been told we can pick someone who plays RT to back up Diem for a year or two or someone who can help right away that can rotate with Freeney (coming off injury) and Mathis I think I pick who will help me right now.  Plus, the organization knew they would have to draft a LT prospect the next year even if they kept Charlie Johnson

2011 - Anthony Castonzo

Great pick even though he has been hurt this year.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

Comment 30 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I DON'T

necessarily disagree with the post but it is very easy in hindsight to say who they should have picked. All these guys were picked right around where they should have been picked. There were no “reaches” here. Sometimes the talent level in a particular draft isn’t all that good. Check out the 2009 first round.

I also think that people focus to much on first round picks. It’s important to hit on these picks but successful drafts are made in the other rounds.

I know a lot of people on this board will disagree but if you can get 2 or 3 starters out of a draft you are doing very well.

by javen on Oct 19, 2011 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Response

I appreciate this post, but allow me to respond by pointing out some information you left out of your evaluation.

2007: I don’t think anyone has said that Anthony Gonzalez was a ‘bust,’ but he certainly has been a disappointing player. Like it or not, draft picks and the people who make them are evaluated on whether or not the players selected can stay healthy. An injured player is a useless player, and if someone (like Gonzo) cannot stay on the field, then that will be seen as the front office failing to recognize a flaw in the player selected. Also, there were durability flags about Gonzo coming out of OSU. No, he didn’t have an injury history, but durability is ALWAYS a red flag for anyone coming out of college playing WR at 6’, 180+ pounds. Thus, I think the pick was ‘disappointing,’ but not a bust.

Also, you’re not factoring in the Colts trading a 2008 first round pick to acquire a second rounder in 2007. That pick was used to take Tony Ugoh, and Ugoh was a huge bust. Thus, you have to consider Ugoh a 2008 first rounder. Guys the Colts could have drafted in ’08 had they kept that pick include Matt Forte, Eddie Royal, Brian Flowers, Jordy Nelson, and Tracy Porter (the dude who picked off Peyton in SB 44).

2009- Not everyone knew the Colts would take a runningback. I don’t know where you’re getting that. Mike Mayock of NFL Network was convinced Polian would take Laurinaitis from OSU. I thought Ziggy Hood. both were considered better prospects than Brown by pretty much every mock draft out there, and it turns out the mocks were right. Laurinaitis and Hood are quality starters. Donald Brown isn’t.

2010- Saffold over Hughes is a no-brainer. Saffold is one of the premiere young left tackles in football. Hughes is a bust. He can’t get on the field and sucks at special teams. Part of the problem is Hughes was projected as a stand-up 3-4 rusher, not a 3-tech end. The Colts front office botched their evaluation of him, just as they did of Saffold. Bill Polian said they didn’t think Saffold could start at LT. Wrong again.

2011- So far, Castonzo, Ijlana, and Nevis have impressed. durability issues now surround both of them. Again, no one gets a pass if players drafted (especially in early rounds) can’t hold up. Personnel people are supposed to vet that during the evaluation process. That’s why they are paid seven figure salaries. The hope is these injuries are not common. If they start becoming common, the front office will not escape blame.

Again, I appreciate your FanPost, but it’s important that you understand that much of the criticism the Polian regime has gotten for its recent draft record is very much deserved. If this front office did not have the last name ‘Polian’ stamped on the front office doors, they’d have been fired by now for this draft bungles. Chris Polian himself recently said that early round picks are considered ‘successes’ when those picks earn a second contract with the club after they play out their rookie deals.

Well, based on that, not one first round pick since 2007 for the Colts is going get that second contract. Ugoh is already out of the league. Gonzo’s last year in the NFL is this one. The Colts would be morons to re-sign Donald Brown to any kind of extension, and Hughes is a clear bust.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Oct 19, 2011 1:09 PM EDT reply actions   3 recs

I don’t always agree with you BBS, but you said it best right there.

And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT

by Sparhawk on Oct 19, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Saffold???

How do you define Saffold as premier??? He’s anything BUT premier.

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

29’th- for saffold. 16’th for the colts. Good try. Polian wins.

by DIU on Oct 19, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

First off, some jobs in the United States are judged on performance and results. If a financial analysts’ primary job is to forecast the stock market and individual companies, he’s allowed to be off every once in awhile. But if his recommended investments have lost $$$$ for 5 straight years, he would’ve been fired years ago. Make excuses all you want to defend the selections of Anthony Gonzalez, Donald Brown, and Jerry Hughes, but they have set this team back the past couple years. (And you didn’t even mention trading a #1 selection for Tony Ugoh).

And I disagree completely about Donald Brown’s selection. I, for one, was shocked when he was selected. I thought we had much greater needs that season – DT (I wanted Ziggy Hood), OL, and LB. Same thing with the Jerry Hughes’ selection. Was a 3rd pass-rusher a need? Absolutely, but you don’t spend a 1st round pick on a situational, 3rd-down rusher. Especially when you have glaring needs along the offensive line (which Bill Polian called out after the SB).

www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!

by kmbryant09 on Oct 19, 2011 1:17 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

HINDSIGHT

It’s great how everyone knew which prospects would pan out and which would be busts after the draft. Some even knew that draft picks would get hurt.
If you are going to blame Polian for the misses who gets the credit for Angerer, Conner,Powers,Collie, Mcafee, Wheeler and Garcon?
While you are at it, since we are going to have a really high pick this year can you tell us who we should stay away from because he is going to get hurt..

by javen on Oct 19, 2011 2:48 PM EDT reply actions  

First off...

This isn’t pure luck. It’s Bill Polian’s job to be able to accurately scout talent (well, it’s really the scouts, but Bill makes the final call). Every job comes with accountability. If, in hindsight, you suck at drafting prospects, then guess what – you’re fired!!! Bill clearly hasn’t done as good a job as many other GM’s across the league, and it’s really showing without a healthy Peyton Manning. Also, if he actually used the concept of hindsight, he’d realize that his recent draft history is shit – and he’d go out and sign some quality free agents to make up for the lack of talent that he’s brought in.

Conner, McAfee, and Garcon have proven to be late-round steals. Angerer was a 2nd round pick, so he’s supposed to be good (albeit maybe not THIS good). Powers was a 3rd rounder who hasn’t lived up to the hype the past 2 seasons. Collie was a 4th rounder who’s been severely injured, and so far hasn’t shown the ability to produce without Peyton Manning. Philip Wheeler still isn’t that good.

www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!

by kmbryant09 on Oct 19, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

angerer is not THIS good. the guy is barely a solid player

by omahacolt on Oct 21, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think

i will stick with my solid player description. he is a bad player at slb. at mlb he is at best solid

by omahacolt on Oct 22, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

NO

Connor Angerer and the others are not just steals they are really good players. Teams are not built on only first round picks. You find good players where you find good players. There is a misconception that all first round picks become pro bowl players. Some do, usually at the top of the first round, but most do not. Most other GMs don’t have a track record that is close to Polians. The one’s that are at his level have as many misses as Polian has had. It’s the nature of the draft.

The Colts are unique in that they have the one player on which everything rides. If healthy the Colts are a contender for a title every year. When he’s not they are toast. It’s pretty simple.
Without the injuries this team is 5-1 and a lock for the playoffs.

by javen on Oct 19, 2011 4:27 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Preach it brother

by DIU on Oct 19, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

BECAUSE

that player is the quarterback and he controls the ball on every offensive play. His actions on offense also dictates what the defense will be asked to do.

by javen on Oct 20, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then why didn't the Patriots fall apart in 2008?

Instead, they won 11 games with Matt Cassel.

When Aaron Rodgers missed time (last season?) – the Packers nearly beat the Patriots with Matt Flynn under center.

Yes, QB is the most important position in the league, and possibly all of sports – but that doesn’t give your entire team a free pass to suck when your QB gets injured. History has shown that good/great TEAMS are more than just an elite QB. What we’re finding out about the Colts is that they’ve been a pretty shitty team held up by the G.O.A.T. QB.

And about the drafts – I don’t care where the players are selected. When you spend 4 drafts, and all you have to show for it is a pair of solid LB’s (in a system that doesn’t prioritize LB play), a Punter, and a talented, but inconsistent WR and CB, you’ve failed miserably. Especially when your biggest free agent acquisitions have been Jamaal Anderson and Ernie Sims

You really need to accept the fact that this team is devoid of talent, almost exclusively because of the incompetencies of our front office.

www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!

by kmbryant09 on Oct 20, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

BECAUSE

Brady, while very good doesn’t mean everything to his team that Manning does. additionally, NE played and unbelievably weak schedule that included the NFC west and AFC west.

Its also probable that NE has a better team than the Colts. If you want to fire Polian for that go ahead but you’d better fire all the other GM’s as well.

by javen on Oct 20, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not true at all

If you took your homer glasses off for one second you’d realize that this team isn’t all that talented.

Wayne, Saturday, Clark are all on the decline and there’s no replacement in sight. Mathis is a FA. Freeney will be on the decline in another year or so, and there’s no replacement.

As for young players, Angerer, Conner, Castonzo, Nevis, and Powers make up arguably the league’s worst “young core” of players to build around. I mean, seriously, we have 2 over-achieving LB’s, hopefully a solid LT, **hopefully a solid DT, and an overrated CB who can’t stay healthy.

Seriously, 3 years from now this team is screwed unless they can infuse this roster with some SERIOUS talent upgrades.

www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!

by kmbryant09 on Oct 20, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

DISAGREE

There is no doubt that Colts are getting old in spots and need a talent upgrade. Its hard to replace pro bowl players when you pick where the Colts pick The question is who is the right guy to affect the transition? I’m guessing that you have a better GM than Polian in mind.
 Couldn’t disagree more about the core. I think all the guys you mentioned are going to be really good if they can stay healthy. I also think Freeney has a number of good years left as DE’s tend to last into their 30’s. That is also the reason they should re-sign Mathis after finding out what Hughes can give them.

by javen on Oct 20, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well..

Freeney is already 31, will be 32 next year…so even if he “plays into his 30’s” – that gives him another 3-5 years…which will most likely be at a declining level, just like I said.

Angerer? Maybe a great player. But don’t forget that MLB in a Tamp-2 style defense isn’t exactly a difference-maker, or a play-maker. He simply plays the run over the DT’s and drops in pass coverage.

Conner? Still overrated. Don’t get me wrong, he’s playing well – but he’s mostly a liability in pass coverage. Part of the reason why his (and Angerer’s) tackle #‘s are so high is because teams are running so many plays against the Colts’ defense, and because our DLine sucks at stopping the run. Don’t let his tackle #‘s fool you into thinking he’s a great NFL linebacker.

Castonzo and Nevis? Hard to judge. I think both showed lots of promise during the first month of the season, but moreso as “solid” players, not NFL Superstars. Castonzo has a lot of improving to do before he’s considered a great LT. Nevis needs a big, 1-tech DT to be paired with in order for him to succeed.

Powers? I was the biggest supporter of Powers 2 years ago. He flashed Pro-Bowl talent as a rookie, but has regressed the past 2 seasons. Is it injuries? Is it Larry Coyer? I don’t know, but to call him a “really good player” is beyond near-sighted. As of right now, there are easily 30 CB’s in the league, even when Powers is healthy. The fact that he’s constantly injured doesn’t help his case at all.

Still, huge holes along the offensive line (which will only be exacerbated when Saturday retires), DT, DE (with Freeney being 32 next year, Mathis possibly leaving, and Hughes sucking), CB (Powers is playing just average, Lacey sucks), Safety (Bullitt can’t stay healthy, Caldwell sucks), and WR (could be Wayne’s last season, Garcon/Gonzo are free agents).

I really have no clue how you people think an 0-6 team is “more talented than most NFL teams”. More often than not, talent wins. And the Colts ain’t winning anytime soon without Peyton Manning.

www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!

by kmbryant09 on Oct 20, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

ANGERER

We can debate all day along but I think the players you listed can all be very good if they can stay healthy. With the Colts this is a big if.
 Disagree strongly about Angerer and the Tampa 2. Middle linebacker is a very key spot as you need a linebacker that defend the run and retreat to cover the middle of the field. Those guys are really hard to find. urlacher is the ultimate guy that can do both. Bracket’s value to the Colts was greater to them than other teams because although small he could drop into coverage very well.

by javen on Oct 20, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brackett hasn't been "good" in years, if ever.

Yes, Angerer is a good MLB, but he’s never going to be a game-changer. My point is, if I had to have 1 elite player, MLB is so far down the list, behind QB, WR, RB, LT, RT, DE, CB, Safety…..

www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!

by kmbryant09 on Oct 20, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

are you saying

that angerer is better right now than brackett ever was? if so then i disagree

and a lb in our d is important. i would put them over cb on your list

by omahacolt on Oct 22, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Defending Polian

On this site akin to heresy. You can not do it and not get blasted, even though you maybe right. The only “busts” I will consider that the Colts have whiffed on is Donald Brown and Tony Ugoh in the first round. I understand everyone’s criticism on Brown because you can find a quality Back anywhere in the draft from the 1st to 7th round and even UDFA’s. Ugoh at the time looked like he was going to be solid he looked average during his rookie season which we would be happy with an average LT. Now we drafted two bookend OT’s last year and both look good when healthy. That is one aspect with this team the irks me to no end we always have key players that can not stay healthy and I know and understand that this is the NFL and players get hurt. But something has to be done we can not have 10-15 starters on IR every freaking year. Stafford is solid but he does not look like a LT to me. The Colts were right in their assessment that he is better suited to be a RT. I see him get bull rushed and get sealed off his block too much to be an franchise LT but he is a starter, that being said the Colts spent a 1st round pick on Hughes and I want him to get on the field and mix it up. The season is over at 0-6 Mathis is getting older so is Freeney there is no reason for not to see what Hughes can do on gameday. The Colts are not going to win anymore than 5 games this year anyway so lets see if Hughes can even be a situational pass rusher. Also I do not care were the Colts draft studs as long as there are studs on the team. But that being said I want to see what Hughes can offer to this team in the future and sitting on the bench and playing special teams will not cut it! We know it takes players time to develop and you can not magically get that much better by only practicing is he as good as Mathis and Freeney no. But how many DE’s in the league are? Let the man play what does the Colts have to lose?

by dave1251 on Oct 19, 2011 5:41 PM EDT reply actions  

AGREED

I don’t mind getting blasted. I think those Colts fans who want to “clean house” are frustrated at the this train wreck of a season and need to blame someone. I think these fans lack perspective. If you analyze every successful GM you will find missed draft picks all over the place. It’s the nature of the draft. Polian has had his share of busts but has had many hits as well. His track record is better than most. What he can’t control are injuries and that is the single biggest reason this team is where it is.
I don’t agree on Brown. I think he has been held back by bad health and a lousy run blocking line. I think he’s the most talented back on the team and think he should get the bulk of the carries with Addai out. At worst they can find out if he can hold up and be productive. For those who didn’t like the pick at the time, check out the 2009 first round, its littered with busts.
I agree with Hughes. I think Mathis should be re-signed because defensive ends can be productive into there 30s before breaking down. By the way, I’m not sure this holds true for Wayne and wide receivers in general. That’s a tough call. The Colts should use this season to see if many of the these young guys can play. Hughes should get as much time as possible since we know what Freeney and Mathis can do.

by javen on Oct 19, 2011 6:21 PM EDT reply actions  

DON"T

you know that the only thing on this board that matters is first round picks? Forget all the late round guys that are major contributors on this team. Jerry Hughes is a bust.

by javen on Oct 21, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about the Indianapolis Colts, 2006 NFL Champions!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

B1_small
Colts.com Reworks Roster
Nerds2
Andrew Luck Failing to Meet Expectations and Five Other Predictions
1565007530_small
Devil's Take - Colts Misconceptions and Issues

Recent FanPosts

Small
Three Big needs with possible answers
Small
National Football Posts's "Impact Rookies"
Small
Gonzo
Images_small
Colts Trade Chris Gronkowski for CB Cassius Vaughn
Image_small
Biggest Colts Changes
Houston_texans_v_indianapolis_colts_-o3ldozy6pvl_small
Announcement about research project involving StampedeBlue
Indianapolis-colts_small
New defensive scheme: Will it help or hurt the Colts?
B1_small
Two Nuggets from the Official Roster
Harbaugh_1_small
Where does "Mr. Irsay" rank?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Head Writer, Editor-In-Chief

Stampedeblue_small Brad Wells

Mgrex03_avatar_small mgrex03

Contributing Writers

Colts_small emiller17

Photo_small nopuntintended

Dmb33rrr_small Stew Blake