Paul Kuharsky Thinks The Polians Are To Blame For 0-6 Start, Overall Ruination Of Colts
by Brad Wells on Oct 20, 2011 9:00 AM EDT
in 2011 Colts Analysis
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PrintESPN's Paul Kuharsky has been a frequent guest on a few radio shows this week on local Indianapolis radio station WFNI 1070 The Fan, the flagship station for the Colts. I gotta say, the stuff he's chirping pertaining to the Colts on these shows has been pretty damn good, and it's been largely ignored.
Much of what he said won't come off as news to anyone who frequently reads this blog, but the information and opinions Kuharsky shared do reinforce some strongly held views writers, like yours truly, have had for some time.
Kuharsky was on 'The Grady and Big Joe Show' yesterday, and took some not-to-thinly-veiled jabs at the credibility of the men in charge of the Indianapolis Colts, Chris and Bill Polian:
This secondary is just a disaster. I don't know what they were thinking. I still want to know the [Justin Tryon] story. If they think that Jacob Lacey is a No. 2 cornerback in the league, there's some deficiency there at talent evaluation.
But it wasn't the stuff Kuharsky said on the late-morning show Tuesday that was incendiary. It was the conversation he had with Jon 'JMV' Michael Vincent on Monday that was truly informative and 'sit-up-straight-wow.' I missed this interview until today because I spent much of Monday setting fire to live kittens after the Colts fumbled and bumbled away yet another game this past Sunday, falling to 0-6 and the worst record in the league.
During the Monday afternoon interview, JMV asked Kuharsky how much of the blame for the 0-6 start and the poor draft results in recent years should go on those 'at the top of the organization?' Kuharsky answered [emphasis mine]:
I think, fundamentally, Bill Polian and the front office are probably the biggest culprits here, of anything, just because of what you said. If they 'hit' on certain guys, if they hit on Tony Ugoh, then they don't need to draft Anthony Castonzo, probably. Right? If they hit on certain guys, then they don't need to pick the next guy and they could have, you know, done better. And so, the draft failures of the last five years... if Donald Brown was what he was supposed to be, they wouldn't have needed to re-sign Joseph Addai. They would have saved themselves some money there. Maybe they don't need to draft Delone Carter and they could draft something else there that could be helping them right now. There's a domino effect on all of these misses. That, to me, if I was a Colts fan, would be the absolute most frustrating thing.
Yep. There's even more after the jump, including Paul Kuharsky seemingly suggesting that Bill Polian is 'gifting' Andrew Luck to his son, Chris, next year...
It's interesting that Kuharsky is saying these critical comments openly on a radio station that is the flagship for the Colts. Knowing what I know of how the Colts and the Polians react to criticism, no matter how fair or justified that criticism is, I really wonder if Kuharsky's standing at West 56th Street has been effected adversely. Paul said he has no plans to visit Indianapolis this year until the Super Bowl, and Super Bowl press access in Indy is not controlled by the Colts. It's league controlled.
Back to the Monday interview, JMV then went on to ask Paul if Jim Caldwell is on or off the hook for this year because of Peyton Manning's injury. Kuharsky said he's on the hook, but did give Caldwell credit for keeping the team together through this mess. However, that doesn't mean Caldwell's job at the end of 2011 is safe. In fact, it's anything but.
PK: I think the transition from Bill Polian to Chris Polian has produced a lot of changes on different levels. Maybe in draft strategy. We saw the P.R. department turnover. We've seen other people, [Tom] Moore and [Howard] Mudd, go as this thing has kind of turned itself over. And, I think he, you know, Jim Caldwell is Bill Polian's guy. No, Tony Dungy was Bill Polian's guy and Jim Caldwell is Tony Dungy's guy. And how far removed from that is Chris Polian? And how much might he want his own guy, or feel he's got to have his own guy in order to move the chess pieces, so to speak.
JMV then added this pretty significant little bit of rumor tongue:
JMV: The more and more I hear, the more and more there's a growing 'splinter cell,' if you will, type of group [at West 56th Street] that are basically sick and tired of hearing what the Polians have to say over there.
Folks, JMV is very wired into the Colts and the staff who work at West 56th Street. He was the one who first (and correctly) reported that Peyton Manning would have a third surgery in August, effectively ending his 2011 season. So, when JMV says he's hearing that people within the organization are growing sick of the Polians and want them gone, it's a safe bet that info is true.
Kuharsky knows this, and responded [emphasis mine]:
PK: I'd stop short of calling it a 'rift,' but I do think some, how shall we say... I think the coaching staff and the front office are not as united as they typically have been there. And that's another reason you can see, and that's not so much maybe Caldwell, who I think is 'company man' and a good soldier, but maybe some of the stronger personalities on his staff who've been part of things there for a long time and had their way of doing things and had success with it. I think there have been, I wouldn't say 'battles,' but I don't think the coaching staff gets that big a say in who stays and who goes. I think some of the decisions made on cutdown day didn't go as well over in the coaches' offices because they were kind of edict decisions, and went against, maybe, I don't want to say 'the vote' because it's not a democracy, but against what the wishes of some of the offensive or defensive staff might have wanted.
This might explain why strong-minded, legendary assistants like Howard Mudd, Tom Moore, and Gene Huey are now gone, replaced with less accomplished people who can't coach the Colts to wins over the Browns, Chiefs, and Bengals.
Still, despite the apparent in-fighting between coaches and the Polians, Paul Kuharsky makes one thing clear:
PK: I don't think the Polians are going anywhere.
JMV then stated that there is a believe that a lot of the negative stuff coming out of West 56th Street is by virtue of people who actually hope that the Polians fail.
JMV: There are some people who would, if nothing, like to see a couple of Polians no longer a part of [the Colts] anymore.
PK: Oh yeah! I think that's true.
Kuharsky went on to talk about how people in the building are starting to tune out the Polians, and that their accomplishment of winning a championship in 2006 is dwindling to a distant memory. However, Kuharsky reiterated:
PK: I think Irsay is completely married to the Polians. Anybody in the building, in headquarters, hoping for something to change with the Polians isn't going to get what they want until Chris Polian has a big failure on his own.
But it was for the final moments of their conversation that Kuhasrky held off the duzzy, the 'wow' suggestion that would have more than a few league people perk up with interest should this scenario prove true:
PK: And, quite frankly, I could see a scenario where Bill is kind of 'gifting' Andrew Luck to Chris, and saying, I had Jim Kelly and I had Peyton Manning, and you're getting Andrew Luck. Here's my gift to you for your G.M. legacy. Go make it work and make your stamp.
'Gifting.'
At first listening, it sounds an awful lot like Paul suggesting that Bill Polian is sabotaging the Colts this season so they can intentionally lose and draft Andrew Luck with the No. 1 overall pick in 2012. I did contact Paul for clarification on the comment, and he told me it was NOT meant to suggest Bill or Chris are intentionally tanking. Rather, Paul meant to say that if the Colts end up with the worst record and the No. 1 pick, they will indeed take Luck. Thus, Luck 'gifted' to Chris.
I don't know. Makes sense when you add that little clarification, but without it, sure looks like Paul suggested the Colts were intentionally tanking for Andrew Luck. I don't believe it was Paul's initial intention to suggest that, but listeners who heard him Monday probably came away with that impression.
So, yeah. Lots to digest there.
Apologies if this all depresses the hell out of you, but it seems our beloved Colts are in complete and total disarray. It sounds like the Polians are about as popular within the walls of West 56th Street as they are outside those walls. Makes you wonder if Andrew Luck would want anything to do with this organization should the Colts get the top pick. Remember the last time Indy tried to draft a Stanford QB No. 1 overall?
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“Overall ruination of the Colts.” You’re not trying to generate page hits are you?
by javen on Oct 20, 2011 9:25 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
crazy...
These articles are good reads… Its tiring to hear people call the writers here page view whores. This is one of the best fan blogs out there and honestly I feel that it is written from a true fan perspective.
Of course they aren’t all objective, that’s what www.colts.com is for.
by coltsfanbeforemanning on Oct 20, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think writers would be singular in this instance.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't."
- Jack Dempsey
by infinityzero.systemerror on Oct 20, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
nah...
I meant it to be plural… plus, its a blog. I shoulds has the rights to be speakin da bad engrish!
by coltsfanbeforemanning on Oct 20, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Page view whore, right here. That’s me. And guess what? You feel right into my trap! Not only did you click the page, but you also commented! Thanks for being such a willing pawn in my global scheme to squeeze as many page views out of my readers as possible.
As a result, I’m currently rolling in a bed made of 100 dollar bills while a hooker feeds me grapes coated in uncut cocaine.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
by Brad Wells on Oct 20, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
haha...
i would probably not have the hooker feed you cocaine, unless it is a midget hooker as that is just beyond awesome. I hope you also have albino alligators just roaming around that room as well.
by coltsfanbeforemanning on Oct 20, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Alligators
They are mixing the drinks.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
EASY MAN
If you are going to put out provocative pieces and take strong opinions you should expect people to challenge you. I would think that is what the whole point of the comments section is about. Its not personal and its not life or death. I respect your opinion and appreciate the blog.
agreed... but...
don’t you think “page view whores” isn’t really an opinion?
One of the writers here, I disagree with his opinion 99.999999831417982728% of the time, but I don’t call him a page whore. I tell him that I strongly disagree and why. I like reading them because they are interesting, but I seriously think that dude is my polar opposite. I think he wrote an article about us trading four 1st round picks for Kyle Freakin Orton? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on that one.
by coltsfanbeforemanning on Oct 20, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I never
used that term. I think that just like many newspapers, magazines and news shows the articles are designed to be provocative and attract attention. Nothing wrong with that just don’t get all worked up when people try to challenge the assumptions.
Hey it worked, he reeled me in.
the thread that you replied to..
was about the dude calling BBS a page view whore, so i just assumed that is what he was talking about. My bad.
Criticism is all good but taking pot shots at somebody like that is beyond ridiculous.
by coltsfanbeforemanning on Oct 20, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
did you even read?
Come on man read the article before bashing a guy’s writing. You honestly disagree with that? The colts WASTED the prime of a player that should have 5 rings because they never gave him a great defense. When they were good: super bowl.
Stay classy
by arbuch02 on Oct 20, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As Bad as the Colts are
The Miami Dolphins will go 1-15 this season at best. Or they may have a big donut. Miami needs a QB much more than the Colts, and the Colts will eventually win a game or 2, I highly doubt that Miami won’t get 1st pick. Bradford will also grab some wins, Vikings’ troubles aren’t with the QB position.
But yes, it’s been pretty apparent that Bill and Chris Polian are to blame. At this point, Bill should either give all duties to Chris, or take full control. This is completely ridiculous.
And I hate this notion that Andrew Luck will be a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady type of player. There are so many 1st round QB busts (Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Andre Ware, Art Schlicter (Colts fans gotta know him), and I wouldn’t be suprised if Blaine Gabbert is the 2011 NFL Draft QB bust). Nothing is for sure, in any sport, just because a player is a top pick, it doesn’t mean sh*t.
Pat McAfee for President 2016
RIP Steve Jobs - Thank you for the Mac computers that I mortgaged my house for.
Anthony Calvillo - 72,382 passing yards - pro football's all-time leader
I would agree.
Also, I was under the impression that first rounders had to produce right away. I mean Luck clearly wouldn’t play for years here and he would be the #1 overall pick. If you’re gonna hate Jerry Hughes for not producing while being placed behind two pro bowl DE’s, then shouldn’t hate be placed on Luck for not being able to produce behind Manning?
#DevilsAdvocate#
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't."
- Jack Dempsey
by infinityzero.systemerror on Oct 20, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
My point almost exactly
I hate this topic of ‘Suck for Luck’
Pat McAfee for President 2016
RIP Steve Jobs - Thank you for the Mac computers that I mortgaged my house for.
Anthony Calvillo - 72,382 passing yards - pro football's all-time leader
man... i really want to agree with you...
But I am just not sure which two games we will win. I thought we were a 2-3 win team this year when the season started, but those 2-3 that I thought we would win were towards the beginning of the schedule.
There are several remaining where I don’t see us standing a chance.
1. Saints
2. Pats
3. Ravens
4. Falcons (debatable, but I seriously doubt we have much of a shot)
5. Texans
There are some games that I think we will be highly the underdog.
1. Titans
2. Titans
Then there are games that are 50/50
1. Jags
2. Jags.
At best we split the series with the Jags, but I think the Jags will dominate with their O-Line and not give us much of a chance. They’ll put Gabbert in easy 3rd and short and I think close, but we’ll find a way to lose.
by coltsfanbeforemanning on Oct 20, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
forgot about the panthers
I put them in the underdog category.
by coltsfanbeforemanning on Oct 20, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The Titans are going to be as tough as any team.
"If they want me to be a crazy, emotional, frenzied fan in section 603, then they can't expect me to be reasonable about the business of football"
ssdd
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
by TRDean on Oct 20, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn’t say tanking, but I do think that the Polians did put a crappy football team together this year probably in the hopes of losing. Why else not play Tryon or cut Hayden. Not sign Tommie Harris or going after Pat Williams. Either one of those guys would have been better than having to resign Muir.
Not getting another safety.
I don’t know if putting together a crappy team constitutes tanking, but yeah, I think that’s what happened this year once they knew Manning was out.
However, I do think the coaching staff just plain sucks, cause I do think we should have won a couple of those games. Am I happy we didn’t? A little cause we are still in the running for the #1 pick (which I’m all for trading if Manning is healthy to play out his contract), but the thought of “tanking” abhors me.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
LUCK
I generally like Kuharsky but his comments and then backtrack on Luck and the Polians are stupid. Polian isn’t trying to sabotage the season for his son’s sake. There are probably 6-7 teams that are in the running for the worst record and the Colts can’t control that. Also, the players and coaches are professionals and their careers with the Colts or other teams in the league is at stake.
I saw this at PFW weekly from an NFL scout, coach or player personnel guy speaking on the condition of anonymity that applies:
“I have heard a lot of speculation about the race for Andrew Luck, and how teams like the Colts are trying to lose games. You would rather be 2-14 than 6-10 this year, but every team goes into the week trying to win. You never think about trying to lose. You would lose the players if you did. Every GM-when they are struggling, they are miserable. They are fighting, scratching to win because there is such a difference in how it feels to win and lose”
by javen on Oct 20, 2011 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Who's to blame?
How is it all Polian’s fault? If the team is competitive all the way until the fourth quarter (w/o the best QB on the planet), and then chokes, how is that all blamed on Polian?
Nothing on the players themselves? Nothing on the coaches? Nothing on plain dumb luck?
Remember that there are 4 starter/quasi-starters on IR, not to mention all the other nicked up players we have.
Polian’s not perfect, but the fact that they’ve been in every game but Week One w/o Peyton Maning is incredible.
by James Broschat on Oct 20, 2011 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Bottomline business
Bill Polia is not paid seven figures just to make the team ‘competitive.’ He and his son are paid to win. This is a result-only business. Bottomline is to win. Nothing else matters.
People do NOT fork over $200 a ticket, and pay $20 mill a year in stadium costs, for the team to give a good effort. They do this so the team can win.
And since the Polians run this organization and make every meaningful decision, YES! They are to blame.
When you are in charge of something, and that something fails miserably, YOU are to blame. Comes with the job. It’s why you’re paid.
What part of this don’t you get? Do you honestly think these guys are judged and valued by their peers based on whether or not the team plays hard? Both Kuharsky and JMV say that people within the organization want the Polians gone because they are sick of their shit. Part of that ‘shit’ is their piss poor draft record in recent years and that this franchise has slowly declined since they won the Super Bowl in 2006.
Obviously, players and coaches do not escape blame. The legacies of Wayne, Clark, Freeney, Mathis, and others have taken a BIG dent this year. None will see the HoF now, or have a much tougher road to get there. All will now be seen as ancillary pieces that simply aren’t that good without No. 18. And as for the coaches, Caldwell is as good as gone. Kuharsky basically said so in the discussion.
But, at the end of the day, the coaches are hired by the Polians, and the players are drafted and signed by them as well. Buck stops with them. Ergo, they are to blame.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
by Brad Wells on Oct 20, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well Stated
I do not understand why so many fans cannot comprehend the essence of what BBS has posted regarding Polian and crew. I would like to suggest a different approach to bolster BBS point of view. Write a blog containing some of the Colts salaries including the portion against the salary cap. Polian’s philosophy about signing Colts FA’s first is completely flawed. This results in overpaid players which results in no money left for quality FA’s. Instead when Colts finally sign a FA, its low risk, high reward type which is really low risk, low reward. The loyalty that Polian has shown to his players is an outdated philosopy. It does not work in business or sports anymore. Polians mis management of money is more of a reason of Colts demise then bad draft picking. I realize the pro-Polians point to the Colts record in past 12 yrs and ask why change for just 1 bad season. I will tell you why,,since 2006, with one aberation, the Colts record and quality of team has declined.
If you run a business and there is steady decline of profits and dont make changes, sooner or later your business will be unprofitiable.
Regarding salaries: I will start ball rolling with 3 players. Collins was a complete waste of 4 million dollars,,the absolutely worst fit for Colts. In addition signing Bullit with a bad shoulder was waste of money, and I would also add Brackett (altho I like him) is far overpaid based on his value to team. Just with those 3 players, Colts could have added at least average quality RT, CB, SS.
by oldnjcoltsfan on Oct 20, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
AND
until this season his organization has won more games under his tenure than any other team in the league. Only 2 teams can claim to have done better. The Colts just lost the one player they couldn’t afford to lose. He’s the most valuable player to his team in the league by far. He’s probably makes a difference in 7 or 8 wins per year. If he plays they probably win 10-11 games and easily make the playoffs.
Has he made mistakes, sure, its the nature of the business. Please show me the GM that hasn’t screwed up. ( Let’s not use the Jacksonville GM as an example)
Your comments on the legacies of the veterans is silly. The only real candidate would be Freeney and possibly Wayne and their legacies won’t be tarnished at all.
I enjoy the discussion and I hope you do as well.
I wouldn't blame Luck
for not wanting to come to an organization run by Polian. That’s basically accepting the fact that you’ll be starting every drive from the 20 yard line or worse, you’ll have to score a ton of points in a short time of possession because of the inept defense, and you’ll be scrambling to get rid of the ball within 3 seconds, due to O-line problems. Sounds like a great situation.
by Ayrshire on Oct 20, 2011 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
AGREE?
Getting picked by the Colts didn’t work out so well Manning. Why would Luck want a career like that?
I guess that depends
on what you call working out so well, or not working out so well. Manning is the best to ever play. He would have been great and would have set records regardless of what team he went to. But, one ring in 13 years isn’t a major success story in my opinion….not with that degree of talent.
by Ayrshire on Oct 20, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
...
Dan Marino would disagree with you i’m sure
Marino failed to win a SB
But that doesn’t mean Manning or anyone else should just shut up and be happy with one. Marino was a great passer, maybe the best ever. But Manning is the greatest overall QB. Only 1 ring to show for it is a shame.
by FatDT on Oct 20, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
a QB's influence is limited
they’re on the field for less than half the game (incl. ST).
when they are, they hand off 25-55% of the time.
I’m not ashamed of the last 10 years.
When there was playoff success, a lot of it was due to D & ST & the running game.
Nevertheless, Manning’s not complacent after one ring, and neither am I. He ain’t retired yet.
Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy
Yes, exactly.
A QB can’t be on the field all the time. So even the best have to rely on the rest of the team. Which is the problem, because defense and special teams have been consistently bad.
must disagree with this and the initial comment
You wouldn’t blame Luck, eh? Do you blame Manning for resigning with the Colts and taking a team-friendly deal? He could have gone to any of 20 cities and been the toast of the town. Do you think he’s just too gullible to see that the Polians are inept?. Do you think he would’ve resigned if he thought the P’s were gonna waste his last years and have been selling him short? I don’t.
I agree 18 is the greatest ever, but it’s by a small margin. Brees, Rogers, Brady, et al. aren’t chumps. And it’s not a sport like basketball where a Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, or Kobe can utterly dominate, nor baseball, where an ace pitcher can shut down an entire team. It’s choreography with 11 guys. It’s not like PM throws 145 mph and never has a negative play. He just messes up slightly less than his peers.
And frankly, it’s silly to say Luck wouldn’t want to come to a team like the Colts. How many contenders draft in the top 3? Are we more flawed than the other current bottom feeders. Nah.
I think Luck might especially like the chance to wear Blue for the mentoring, the chance to be on a team with winning potential, and the fact that the franchise is used to building around a QB and giving him unparalleled command and discretion.
Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy
....interesting points.
And, I think there’s some validity to much of what you say. But, also, maybe Manning’s entrenched in Indy, at this point, and doesn’t want to move? Maybe he doesn’t want to become a cartoon like Brett Favre, going to several different cities his last few years. And, with his injury, maybe Manning knows deep down, that the length of his remaining time in the NFL is very ‘uncertain’….and it’s best to stay put.
to respond to your hypotheticals
1) if he was just too entrenched — implies he’s not still hungry. I think he is. He’d get over moving. He’s not guaranteed to be here until the twins graduate from the local high school. He’d audible to a new city if he thought it was the right move for his “home” team.
2) doesn’t want to be a cartoon — implies he’d mail it in like Brett. I don’t think he would if he moved to a new team. He’d continue to prepare and take as much initiative as the team’s staff would allow him. It is this character trait that makes him the best ever, not the arm, the body, whatever.
3) Manning knows he’s done physically — implies he’s just cashing checks. Again, being hungry and of high character, I don’t think that’s our 18.
Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy
Maybe he doesn't want to take
another team’s ‘physical’? lol I know, I know, that’s not our 18…
Yes, yes, YES!!!!
I trust Manning’s judgement far more than any pundit, blogger, or PO’ed malcontent writing here who’s outside of the organization…I have a hard time believing he would have gone to lengths to make sure his career ended with the Colts, if he had lacked faith in management. I have a hard time believing he would have put all his chips in on the the team if even half of what’s suggested on this blog is true.
"Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion."
"All your cryin' don't do no good...Come down off the cross, we could use the wood." ~ Tom Waits
BLOW IT ALL UP!!
Like PK said, it won’t happen, but it needs to. Blow the whole damn thing up. From the Polians and down. Everyone must go!
The Hair of the Dog Sports Blog
Follow me on Twitter: @coldy4goldy
Kuharsky and the gift
In his chat (I think it was last week) Kuharsky brought up the gift idea. He was asked “I know this is a long way away, but say Indy gets the number 1 pick. Do they take Luck to succeed Peyton eventually?”
He answered “I would. I think they do. I think it would be Bill Polian’s gift to Chris Polian.”
Here’s the link: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/40555/nfl-with-paul-kuharsky
So I don’t think he believes they are intentionally tanking. I think he means the “gift” in relation to what Bill would do if we had the #1 pick.
it wouldnt get page hits
if BBS didnt try to find some type of conspiracy out of it
he’s like a bomb sniffing dog…he’ll find those conspiracies no matter what…even if no reasonable person would see it….he’ll sniff em out! lol
LUCK
I think he’d pick Luck not as a gift but because it would be the right thing to do for the organization. It could, although there are no guarantees, set up the team for another 10 years of success.
Quarterbacks drive everything in this league and without a good one a team is going nowhere.
This thread in general leaves a bad taste in my mouth..........
Pretty much all the content makes the Colts smell REALLY BAD. The part that really turns my stomach is the elder Polian gifting his kid. I have no opinion of young Polian, except I had no problems with his choices in the past draft. I will say this though, Young Polian will look much better to me if he has to do the research and evaluation required to be successful in the draft, as opposed to drafting one can’t miss prospect that daddy provided.
No great surprises here...
Irsay supports the Polians, who aren’t going anywhere. The Polians have missed on some 1st round picks, hit on others. The coaches, including Caldwell, really don’t have a say in personnel. Some people (probably coaches) have decided to take the opportunity of a losing season to say (privately) that they don’t like the Polians. When you 0-6 and headed to even worse, there will be some back-biting.
Different perspective here
Part of the problem is having an organization that has succeeded based on the presence of a totally dominant QB, a guy who can win game after game with a team that doesn’t have to be so great overall. It becomes dependent on one guy, and the continued winning builds complacency and laziness in scouting and drafting, because hey! The team’s winning, right? Remove that guy, and the team is lost, and the organization has not been built to succeed without him. Manning will be back, but there is a lesson here. Success breeds failure eventually. Another thing: a veteran team is hurt more by a shortened off season conditioning program. The older guys are, the longer it takes to get in shape. Thus, the collapses in the fourth quarter. This has created the perfect storm.
Just the perspective of a Chiefs fan since 1966. I have seen a lot of periods of great success and periods of immense failure. It is time for the Colts to re-build a team, not hang on based on one superstar QB. The ultimate failure would be to land Luck, keep the same philosophy, and then fail for another decade if Luck doesn’t pan out. I saw this happen to the Chiefs when Lenny Dawson retired, and they picked Todd Blackledge over Marino and others. It was empty stadiums for the next 10 years.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
- Groucho Marx
I think you make several excellent points.
…coupled with the offensive line work-in-progress and a completely undermanned secondary, and its easy to see why this team is struggling to win a game.
by taipei_coltsfan on Oct 20, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
right
but the chiefs are almost just as bad as the colts are this year and they don’t (and haven’t) had a contract as big as Mannings hamstringing them…i’m not trying to be a jerk, just stating the facts…and also have been picking many spots higher in the draft every year. so of course when we remove that guy the team isn’t going to be as good. thats like having an expansion team and telling them they get less salary and they have to draft at the bottom of the draft every year…BUT you still have to make a team that is just as good and can still compete…
i think shortened seasons hurt young teams more, less time to learn the system & acclimate
veterans generally show up in shape, ‘cause they know what they’re getting themselves into.
Modern training camp doesn’t allow much time for getting into shape.
Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy
by zherebyonki on Oct 21, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
All the "gift" comment meant was that Bill is planning to retire soon...
and he recognizes that it would be a great benefit to Chris to have Andrew Luck, just as he greatly benefitted from Kelley and Manning. Last I looked, the Colts are playing all of their best players for most, if not all, of the available snaps. And, those players are playing hard.
Man.....
I wish, and I just tried, I could find the post I wrote right after we lost to the Saints in the superbowl. I wrote how Polian had put a subpar team around arguabley the best qb to play the game, and that Caldwell wasn’t capable of coaching a high school team, amongst a lot of other comments. It’s just really funny to me that all of you said that I was somebody that you kicked off before and back under a new name, and that I was completely wrong. Funny, I still feel the same way and so do the rest of you now. Sorry to say as a fan and former season ticket holder (no way I would still pay to support the front office I don’t support) there is no end in sight if Caldwell and the Polians stick around.
Not all of us said that about you.
I was sick over the Caldwell hire from day one. I didn’t and still don’t believe in hiring a coach who has a history of losing 3/4 of his games in college. Those kind of hiring practices (including Chris Polian) are one of many reasons I don’t support management. However, the players are not at fault in any way and I support them fully.
totally agree
I’m still a fan of the team (players) for sure just not the coaching staff or management
your last sentence is why we can get along
Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy
by zherebyonki on Oct 21, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I am honestly completely cool with a management edict to strategically reset the franchise
We have all seen what a difference a franchise QB makes to an organization. By all accounts the best prospect since Manning is out there this year. Peyton’s injury made/makes this the perfect opportunity.
I’ve been critical of the Polians the last couple of years.
However if this season was a strategic reset of the franchise. I take all the negative back.
These guys are crazy like foxes.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
“Makes you wonder if Andrew Luck would want anything to do with this organization should the Colts get the top pick. Remember the last time Indy tried to draft a Stanford QB No. 1 overall?”
Probably nothing, but there was this post over on PFT -
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/19/some-fear-luck-could-make-a-power-play/
What do I really have left in life but this place? It ain't much of a home, but it's all I got. Well, g******it. I'll be damned if I let some foreign, graffiti writin', soul suckin', son of a bitch in an oversized cowboy hat and boots take my friend's souls and sh** 'em down the visitors toilet!
Colts have been a model of constant success for 12 years now
Can’t figure any reason why he’d object to being here? Unless maybe the plan would be for him to ride the bench for 3 years.
Can’t imagine that’s the plan though?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
unfortunately...
Polian said he’d draft luck and have him sit on the bench for 3-4 years. Can’t do that to a top pick. 2nd rounder, yeah. 1st overall? No chance.
by coltsfanbeforemanning on Oct 20, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Peyton has an out in his contract
So I’d think Peyton would be the guy to lose in that case. Or at the very least come back on a reworked contract.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Why should the rest of us suffer?
Why would I want the Polians fired after a 13 year run of excellence that for a decade was the BEST run in the history of the NFL? Why should the rational people suffer due to this brain dead ’lets blame everyone for a bad season" mantra? I am so happy that none of you have any sort of say on this organization.
I’ll say that again.
I’M SO HAPPY NONE OF YOU CAN RUIN THIS ORGANIZATION.
As far as I’m concerned if Peyton comes back next season and the colts make the super bowl- Brad, you should have to kneel down and kiss his 2006 SB ring.
by DIU on Oct 20, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The reason everyone wants the Polians fired
Is that the year Tom Brady went out in the first quarter of the first game of the season the Pats still went 11-5 with a qb that hadn’t started since high school – SINCE HIGH SCHOOL. The reason they were able to do this is they had (have) a great coaching staff and built a great “team” through the draft and free agency. WE lose our qb and we can’t win a game. Polian has take 2 rb’s and 2 LT’s in recent drafts not to mention Gonzalez who was a #2 yeah a #2 receiver on a run first college team, Marlin Jackson a slow college Safety made into a CB and Jerry Hughes (by the way if you can’t see that, maybe you should see if you can get in the front office with them). IF his dumbass could evaluate 1st round talent then we could have addressed OTHER needs. He has road Manning’s coat tails since he drafted him. So if you can’t see that, I will assume you are still one of the “dillusional ones”. Manning has made this run not Polian, nice try though.
by chadm832 on Oct 20, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Save your breath.
Some people are never going to actually ‘get’ it. Some just can’t get the difference between a GM’s run of 13 years with a standard array of NFL quarterbacks, contrasted with a GM who is lucky enough to have a run of 13 years with Peyton Manning quarterbacking. They are two totally different things and therefore the expectations should be much different. The only ‘brain dead’ logic is not believing much more could have and should have been accomplished due to having Manning.
by Ayrshire on Oct 20, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Delusional***?
I just happen to have appreciation for a little more than 1 player on the team. Rewatch the late 80-97 colts and gain a little appreciation for what Polian has done. He will likely be in the HOF as an executive. Don’t see that? I’ll just have to assume you’re ignorant to how an NFL club is run and what good drafting actually is.
Funny but this team is winless without that one player.
Do you think he might mean more than you give credit for?
by SoCalHoosier on Oct 21, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
JACKSON
was a college cornerback and safety and was rated as a solid first round pick by every scouting guide. He didn’t have elite speed but that is not generally needed in the cover 2 scheme. He was an excellent tackler which is crucial in that defense. He played very well for the Colts but had a severe knee injury that cut short his career. He was a solid pick.
I
PATS
didn’t make the playoffs that year and had an unbelievably easy schedule. They played the AFC and NFC west that year. The guy who replaced Brady Cassel turned out to be a decent NFL starting quarterback..
Maybe the Pats just have a better team and coach than the Colts. If thats true then they have a better team than the other 30 teams. Should all those teams clean house?
my thoughts
my biggest concern with picking andrew luck is having him sit on the bench for 3 to 4 years until peyton manning finally retires. and once peyton manning retires the amount of pressure on andrew luck would be enormous how do you replace peyton manning? then what is andrew luck starts out playing peyton practice for what is andrew luck is an able to practice because peyton takes all the reps like you been doing with drafting luck would be a good long term plan only if peyton manning were not around
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
by whardiek on Oct 20, 2011 3:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Its absurd...
We dumped Huey, Mudd, and Moore along with more talented players like Tryon and Chick (to name a couple). Yet we keep guys who are clearly less capable and less talented. That combined with things like the Garcon pitch attempt against the Bengals really make you wonder if the Colts are not trying to win. Its very disappointing.
agreed with you...
especially about John Chick… that dude is turning out to be a stud and could have been the next Mathis if given the opportunity… I wonder about this, since I generally come from the standpoint that first round drafts have 2 years to show promise and 3 years into the league to produce so I can see why they kept Hughes (although I also see that what Hughes has shown and it isn’t even promise), but I feel like somewhere, anywhere they could have made room for a very promising pass rusher.
I still think they are trying to win. I can’t see any team willingly losing. I’m sure Caldwell is trying hard to get a win. He knows he is gone if he goes 0-16. I am not sure if even Polian could survive an 0-16.
by coltsfanbeforemanning on Oct 20, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
True
I can’t honestly bring my self to believe that they would tank the rest of the season, but they sure are not doing the best job they could in terms of players and coaching staff. Its hard to believe that Polian, who has been so great for this organization for so long, could make such poor decisions.
Beer drink #3 -!
All in one week! I’m one drunken monkey! *
- New drinking game. Take a drink each time this blog mentions that the Polians suck.
I don't condone drinking to motley crue-level of excess
Whenever you get stressed, always remember: RDWHAHB
Better yet...
Take a drink each time one of you whine about those same Polian articles. I shake my head wondering why so many of you come back to read and comment about a topic you don’t want to read about. Puzzling.
by SoCalHoosier on Oct 21, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
gotta represent. Let the lurkers know there's not unanimity in the stampede
Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy
I'm not whining -
Just observing and shaking my head… (and drinking, which is hard to do when I’m shaking my head)
what depresses me
is irsay being married to the polians. A change will not come easily, or soon.
by Bluetime on Oct 20, 2011 10:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Bill Polian
Polian will make whatever decision he wants to make regarding firing coaches. He is not going to listen to the media or fans. He has been in this business so long he probably doesnt listen to anybody. It is good to come here and complain about what is wrong with management but management doesnt care what we think. As long as Colts fans keep going to the games they dont care. Hiring Tressel would be another mistake. You are right that they wont hire Fisher or Cowher and that is sad.
FISHER
You are correct that Polian is his own man and I’m sure he listens to people in the league that he knows and respects.
If he fires Caldwell, I think he goes with Fisher. He knows him well and he’s been around a long time and is a defensive coach. Most of all Fisher doesn’t need or want to run the whole show. He’s also familiar with the Colts personnel. Makes a lot of sense.
I'M SURE
plenty on this board will have problems with Fisher. After all, he’s gone to as many Super Bowls as Caldwell.
I think Fisher would be ideal.
I CANT
honestly say if Caldwell is in over his head or not. Manning obviously had confidence in him. I’m sure Polian took Dungy and Manning’s opinion on him into consideration and he represented continuity. I’m not sure he’s the right guy to transition into Manning’s final years. I think a lot has to do with his demeanor. If he was a ranter and a raver people might feel differently about him. I doubt it, but who knows. I’m pretty new to the board, but I bet people weren’t complaining about him when we were getting ready to play the Saints in the Super Bowl. When you win everything is great and when you don’t people complain. I heard the same complaints about Dungy, to conservative and not fiery enough. Win a Super Bowl and all that goes away. Belechek wasn’t a genius when he coached Cleveland, was he? Flame away my friends
true
if Caldwell had won that game and NOT been outcoached in the SB,, all of us could have taken the last 2 years much better,, too hard to get to the SB,, that is why you can’t lose it when u are in it,, You can say what you want about B Knight’s behavior but he never lost an NCAA Champ game when his team was in it
by OBGYNOSUPREME on Oct 21, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with hiring Jeff Fisher
But who do they replace Coyer with? Would they get away from the Tampa 2.
by SRBradford on Oct 21, 2011 7:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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