Awesome!
3 months ago
Z.Pain
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Outstanding
Get some reccs on this bad boy, please.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
by Brad Wells on Dec 8, 2011 7:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If BBS created something like this
Everyone on this website would rip him a new one.
You may call us legion, for we are many.
by bobbyblitz on Dec 8, 2011 7:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
And it would have said:
“Just sayin, because I want to leave Indianapolis now because Bill Polian is a big meanie. And Donald Brown is still a bust.”
by James Broschat on Dec 8, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
It's been said before, but this year will effectively end the "more valuable" argument.
But idiots will still argue that Brady’s the better player. They’ll be wrong, but they’ll still do it.
by James Broschat on Dec 8, 2011 9:16 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
, but this year will effectively end the “more valuable” argument.
Not really. It shows a few things about the colts front office though.
by frogfromthemud on Dec 9, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
How in the world could you argue that Brady has been more valuable to the Patriots than Manning has been to the Colts?
by James Broschat on Dec 9, 2011 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
How funny... you are trying to be, young padawan;)
by frogfromthemud on Dec 9, 2011 4:07 AM EST up reply actions
Look, let's take you serious
1. You are mixing 2 different arguments: 1. who is more valuable to his team 2. who is a better player.
2. You are calling everybody idiot who disagree with you
Yes, you are a great guy. Kudos.
by frogfromthemud on Dec 9, 2011 4:47 AM EST up reply actions
I asked you a simple question.
Which you never responded to. How could you argue that Brady is more valuable to the Patriots than Manning is to the Colts?
That was the part of my statement that you commented on, and I’m asking you to back it up. If you can’t, then you can excuse me for thinking you’re full of shit.
by James Broschat on Dec 9, 2011 5:20 AM EST up reply actions
Sigh
How could you argue that Brady is more valuable to the Patriots than Manning is to the Colts?
This season proved the Colts front office was unprepared for this situation., and sent dubious messages to the players. They did not put any effort into developing a backup QB(as they admitted when they signed before the start a less than mediocre NFL QB as an upgrade)
2008 Patriots was almost intact after the 2007 season and the 2008 Pats had the team’s easiest schedule in the decade. In 2007 and 2008 surrounded the most talent Brady. Nothing like that was before or after at the Pats.36.8=>25.6 That was the drop off from Brady to Cassel with virtually the same team in the offense.
27.2=>14.5 That’s the drop off between the 2010 Colts offense and the 2011 Colts offense.
The loss in point scored from one year to the other is similar. The difference: if you go from 36 to 25 you still have a chance on most games. If you go from 27 to 14 you will be in loosing team.
The Pats went from blowout wins to close wins and 5 losses.The Colts went from close wins and losses to…more losses.
The Colts absolutely mismanaged the backup QB problem, the overall start position was worse, plus Irsay made some comments after as a player I would not be sure does my boss want our team to win at all.
If you would have a serviceable QB, who could at least sustain drives, the team would have won some close games. But your defense spends on the field 34:33 in average, while your offense only spends there only 25:27. That’s a killer. Sorry, but with Wayne, Collie, Garcon, Clark/Tamme, Addai your team should score more and especially should spend more time on the field.
So just because your sport car QB was replaced by a covered wagon QB, not by a simple car (aka Patriots 2008), it does not mean your sport car is better. It just means a guy at the Colts front office who thought a covered wagon is a good enough replacement failed doing his job.
And if you were aware: I do not argue for a second Brady or Manning iwere the better, or who was more important. All I’m saying using the 2008 Pats vs 2011 Colts in this argument is false.
by frogfromthemud on Dec 9, 2011 6:43 AM EST up reply actions
The question wasn't who's better. It was who's more valuable to their team.
So just because your sport car QB was replaced by a covered wagon QB, not by a simple car (aka Patriots 2008), it does not mean your sport car is better.
It’s obvious that Manning was. Brady being gone led to 5 more losses for the Pats with relatively the same team. The Colts team arguably got better in every area but CB, and lost 6 more games, with 4 to go yet.
by James Broschat on Dec 9, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Your words:
But idiots will still argue that Brady’s the better player. They’ll be wrong, but they’ll still do it.
by James Broschat on Dec 8, 2011 6:16 PM PST reply actions
And again: I did not even argue who was better. I’m just saying, if you were using the 2008 and 2011 seasons as main indicators in the “who is the better” or “who is MVP” debate you are misleading yourself. And you do it without even watching the rosters, the schedules, the offensive drop offs, etc.
But we agree to disagree i guess. Except, I do not think who disagrees with me is full of shite or an idiot. I just think they are wrong in this particular case.
by frogfromthemud on Dec 9, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
You can't compare the 2 situations...
That Patriots’ offense was coming off of a fantasy season. I don’t mean to suggest it was a fluke, but surely you wouldn’t expect a repeat, as we’ve seen with just about any record-breaking season.
Yes, the “total points dropoff” were roughly the same, but the Patriots still scored 25 ppg without Tom. The Colts are averaging 15. The 2008 Patriots still scored 70% of the points scored from the 2007 Patriots. The 2011 Colts are only scoring 53% of the points scored from the 2010 Colts.
So even if you want to continue to use a record-breaking season for comparison’s sake, your assumptions are way off base.
www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!
That Patriots’ offense was coming off of a fantasy season. I don’t mean to suggest it was a fluke, but surely you wouldn’t expect a repeat, as we’ve seen with just about any record-breaking season.
Hm, are you sure? Did you actually see the 2008 Pats schedule?
Because I think there was a good chance for a season with more points scored
Here you go:
In 2008 the 2 divisions the Pats met:
AFC West
Chargers 8-8 (and they smashed the pats that year without Brady)
Broncos: 8-8
Raiders 5-11
Chiefs 2-14
NFC West:
Cardinals: 9-7
49-ers 7-9
Seahawks: 4-12
Rams: 2-14
Only 1 winning team out of the 8.
And here is the kick:
7(!!!!) of this 8 teams were in the worst 10 scoring defense of the league. The exception: Chargers. Not coincidentally Chargers was the team which grilled the Pats.
AFC 1 spot opponents were Colts, Steelers. Both team won, the Chargers and the Steelers destroyed the Pats.
The Patriots met 3 teams with top 10 defenses. (2 against number 9 Fins, (Steelers were No 1, Colts were No 7 that year). The result? 1 win, 3 losses. (they grabbed a win against the Fins)
The 2007 “fantasy points” team had 4 games against top ten scoring defenses as well, but only 1(!) team out of the bottom 10. Although they met them twice.
The divisions the Pats met during the 2007 undefeated season:
AFC North
Steelers 10-6
Browns 10-6
Bengals 7-9
Ravens 5-11
NFC East
Cowboys 13-3
Giants 10-6
Redskins 9-7
Eagles 8-8
5 winning teams out of the 8, including 4 playoff teams.
So again: the 2008 schedule was the easiest I have seen for the Pats in the last 10 years. And I would say there was a really good chance that a Brady led offense would have smashed the scoreboards that year.
by frogfromthemud on Dec 9, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
It ended the year the Pats went 11-5 without Brady – That was confirmation that Belichick was/is/always will be the driving force and mastermind behind those SB Rings
by manningtoharrison on Dec 9, 2011 3:56 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Let's see:
Belichick had a 36–44 record with the Browns. 5 seasons, 1 winning season and 1 playoff appearance.
At the Patriots without Brady: 16-18. Out of the 2 seasons 1 winning season, 0 playoffs.
Belichick with Brady: 120–35 (regular season), (134–40 including play offs)
Brady: (9 seasons as starter), 9 winning seasons, 8 playoff appearances, 5 AFC Championship games, 4 SB games, 3 wins.
Yep, all Belichick.
by frogfromthemud on Dec 9, 2011 4:30 AM EST up reply actions
The Biggest Factor: The Backup QB
You’re forgetting the biggest factor in all of this: the backup QB. Put Painter on the 2008 Pats and please point to me one game we would win. Put Cassell on this year’s Colts and you probably beat Jacksonville twice, you beat the Panthers and the other scrubs on the schedule.
Therefore, saying Manning is MVP because his team went 0-16 is a silly argument. The drop off between Manning vs. Painter is so much wider than Brady vs. Cassell. That points directly to the front office, not to the missing player.
The bottom line is -and always will be -playoff wins and in particular Super Bowl appearances and wins. Brady outdistances Manning on all fronts while Manning is comparable to Farve. Both have wonderful regular season stats. Manning and Farve had brilliant games and unbelievable come from behind wins. They each have one Super Bowl win. However, too often in their careers, in crucial moments they fell apart. Not always, but often enough. That’s the difference.
Well said...
Though it’s clear the Colt’s miss Peyton Manning – there are bigger problems with this team than the play of it’s QB. Injuries really hurt this team, there is crappy coaching, a suspect defense and a GM that has acted oddly.
Here’s what I don’t understand… why the hell didn’t Indy start Orlovsky six weeks ago ?? Just seems fishy to me that Polian sends out a reject like Painter, week after week, as if he was trying to lose football games. There is no doubt in my mind that had Painter taken a seat on the bench (where he belonged) after week four, the Colts would have at least three victories.
Was the goal of Colt’s management to win the Andrew Luck lottery ? If so, then they’re well on the way but, should a GM or an owner intentionally throw a season to get the number one pick – it will leave a stain on that team… forever.
by profootballfan on Dec 9, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I Doubt They Are Tanking the Season
Who would you start: the guy who knows the system or the guy who went 0-16 and walked out of the back of the end zone? That being said, I don’t follow the Colts so closely so I don’t know. I just doubt that Wayne, Freeny, Mathis, etc. would allow that.
I agree on who cares who's better
No one can honestly determine who’s better not Colts or Patriots fan nor the ESPN “analysts” everyone will both present positive supportment to their opinion and disregard contracting evidence it’s like what Luck and Barkley are going through now. There are too many factors that can are im place like the type of offense, the backup qb, the wr’s ability which can change to the qb ability making both irrelevant. You can say Manning quick release makes him elite or the same with Rodger’s ability to run. It’s suppose to be a funny picture not a debate trigger and all arguements are inconclusive.
{ ZuKeO}
by BobInBlue on Dec 10, 2011 12:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions
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