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The Seemingly Annual 'Let's Trade For Glenn Dorsey' Discussion

Glenn Dorsey was a bad draft pick for the Kansas City Chiefs.

I state that because 1) It's the truth, and 2) Because it really isn't Glenn's fault.

Dorsey was drafted with the fifth overall selection in the 2008 NFL Draft. At the time, Carl Peterson ran the Chiefs, and Herm Edwards was the head coach. Edwards, a protege of Tony Dungy, employed a Tampa-2 style of defense. Dorsey, at 6'1 and 295 pounds, was perfect as an undertackle defensive lineman in such a scheme. During his rookie year, Dorsey started all sixteen game and totaled 46 tackles and one sack.

With Peterson and Edwards getting fired after the '08 season, Todd Haley was brought in and the Chiefs switched to a 3-4 defense. In the 2009 NFL Draft, KC wasted another top ten pick on a defensive tackle (this time, Tyson Jackson, Doreys' former teammate at LSU). After it was evident Jackson couldn't play NT in a 3-4, KC's coaches moved both Jackson and Dorsey to defensive end in the 3-4 scheme, even though the clear need in all 3-4 defenses is a nose tackle.

Since the switch to DE in a 3-4, Dorsey has played decently, but not well. Everyone thinks he's playing out of position, and that (for a top ten pick) he's simply not providing the kind of production one needs from a player making $51 million dollars over five years.

Thus, once again, we have someone writing an article saying the Chiefs need to trade Dorsey to a team like the Indianapolis Colts.

Star-divide

I won't lie and say I'm against this trade. Dorsey is rotting in KC. He has the talent to be the best DT in football working out of a Tampa-2. The Chiefs have $108,000,000 combined dollars invested in both Jackson and Dorsey, and neither of them play NT. That is way too much cap money invested in players playing non-essential positions on their defense (DE in a 3-4 is like linebacker in a Tampa-2). 

Thus, it only makes sense for the Chiefs to try and trade Dorsey, and the Colts are a logical trading partner. However, there's a problem.

It's clear that the Chiefs view the Colts as a possible playoff rival. It also doesn't help things that the Colts flat out own the Chiefs pretty much for the last twenty or so years. If Dorsey is traded to Indy and has a monster season, that is going to make Scott Pioli and the Chiefs brain trust look like putzes. They'll look even more incompetent if Dorsey and the Colts defeat the Chiefs in the playoffs, or if Dorsey helps Indy make the post-season while KC is cleaning out their lockers in early January.

The NFL is as much about ego and 'looking good' as it is about winning.

Knowing this, I highly doubt we'll see the Chiefs trading Dorsey to the Colts. Indy likely won't offer more than a second round pick for Dorsey, which is slightly higher market value for the former-LSU phenom (anyone expecting a first rounder for him is delusional). But, if Dorsey goes out there and looks like Warren Sapp 2.0 for Indy, people will question Pioli on the move because Indy plays in the same conference as KC, and the two teams have a history together. The only way Pioli avoids the potential heat is if he can weasel a first-rounder out of Chris Polian, and unless Chris is abjectly stupid, that isn't happening.

It makes more sense if Dorsey is traded to someplace like Tampa Bay, or maybe Chicago. Those teams play in the NFC, and if Dorsey develops into a stud, Pioli does not have to answer questions about him.

The only way I see Dorsey going to Indy is if the Chiefs stumble out of the gate and, by October, it's evident that they have no shot at the post-season. They'll then 'fire sale' players like Dorsey the way the Buccaneers did in 2006 with Anthony 'Booger' McFarland.

If and when that happens, don't hold your breath for Dorsey in blue and white. More realistically, the team's DTs next year will be Fili Moala, Drake Nevis, Antonio Johnson, and perhaps Tommie Harris. We'll see.

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Now that is a huge misconception

Tyson Jackson was not drafted to be a NT at all. He was drafted to play the 3-4 DE specifically because he held a lot of the same attributes that Richard Seymour did as a 3-4 DE in NE

by metal_militia on Jun 7, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

Jackson has NEVER been a DT and has not even played one snap in KC’s D at that position that I remember. He was drafted as a DE

by tomahawk44 on Jun 7, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

So

The Chiefs drafted another DE in a 3-4 scheme with a top five pick?

Why wasn’t Scott Pioli fired, like, on the spot?

FYI: They thought Jackson could play NT. That’s why they took him.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jun 7, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Uhhh, Scott Pioli and most Chiefs analysts had this guy targeted as a DE, ala Richard Seymour from day one. They never projected him as a NT. Like this article here:
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/4/19/844616/chiefs-in-love-with-lsus-tyson

by Hawkwinter on Jun 7, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

B/c, like, you need two DE's in the 3-4

a 5 tech and a 3 tech. As Hawk winter said, he was supposed to be the Chiefs version of Seymour.

by tomahawk44 on Jun 7, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sort of.

Crennel runs your bog-standard Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4, where you need 2 5-techs and a mammoth NT. The elite 5-techs, like Seymour, are interchangeable with your traditional 4-3 DTs playing over the guards (or on the inside shoulder), it’s the 4-3 under shifts that turn the 3-tech into a different position.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Jun 7, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see your point and though it was rumored that the Chiefs were after Crennel the whole time, he wasn’t hired until a year after Jackson was drafted. I’m not sure they were looking for personnel to fit Crennel’s D at that point.

by JComp11 on Jun 7, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

what?

thats completely wrong. not even sure why you think that. they never drafted jackson to play nose

also, a 3-4 de is a very valuable piece to that scheme. very important

by omahacolt on Jun 7, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

No they didnt

He was a 3-4 DE from the moment he came out of college. He was compared to Seymour not Wilfork. Do some homework next time BBS

by metal_militia on Jun 9, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think, long ago, someone must have written something on the internet (it must be true!) about how Glenn Dorsey will never be successful in Kansas City and thousands of people perpetuate that myth each off-season without having actually watched Dorsey play.

by JComp11 on Jun 7, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I liked not seeing

Daniel Muir’s name in that last line…ugh, I hated just typing his name

Go Blue!

Revenue - Expenses = Profit

by dezznutz1001 on Jun 7, 2011 11:39 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Wow, that's a bit of an exagerration...

The article lists 4 teams it feels should deal draft picks for Dorsey, none of which are the Colts, and then lists us as a possible landing spot (read: low trade potential) due solely to our need for a DT and Tampa-2 style. How you got “need to trade Dorsey to a team like Indianapolis” outta that, is beyond me.

That being said, the best defense against this trade is that we already got Dorsey 2.0 in the 3rd round this year in Drake Nevis. He is in the exact same mold as Dorsey, and does the job better. Check out this comparison of senior season’s at LSU…

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p/22089156/Drake-Nevis-senior-season-vs-Glenn-Dorseys-and-Ndamukong-Suhs.aspx

by Hawkwinter on Jun 7, 2011 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

I think those Nevis numbers were projections

That post was made on Oct 14. The NCAA had another month left of play…
i did like the poster who compared Nevis to Booger McFarland, if he can become like him, that would be an answer to Colts fans prayers

Go Blue!

Revenue - Expenses = Profit

by dezznutz1001 on Jun 7, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are correct...sorry

Wrong post link. However, the point was that even in an injury shortened senior season, his stats were comparable to Dorsey, and on TFL, were even better. No need for Dorsey here.

by Hawkwinter on Jun 7, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

As other people have said..

Nevis is Dorsey MKII, so I’d rather let the rook play. Added into that is the cap space factor – and he’s on a rather large contract. I’d rather save that money and get a 1-tech or a safety.

Antoine Bethea - the most underrated safety in the NFL.

by Ben Savage on Jun 7, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Rotting in KC? Quite the exaggeration.

Dorsey grades out as a top 5 run stopper, which is kind of what you want out of a 2-gap, 3-4 DE. He does his job well. He’s not a pass rusher.

Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011

by ArrowSpread on Jun 7, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

No, it isn't

He’s a top ten draft pick with mediocre to bad numbers on a defense that hasn’t been good. We call that ‘rotting.’ Not only do we call it that, but NFP and other think his talents are being wasted in KC. Don’t know what Chiefs fans call it and, frankly, I don’t care.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.

by Brad Wells on Jun 7, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

How are his numbers bad?

He had the 3rd highest tackles for a Defensive End this year, behind Justin Tuck and Justin Smith. And Kansas City’s Defense wasn’t bad either, 14th in yds/g and 11th in points/game.

by James Broschat on Jun 7, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please, don't argue with our head blogger BBS

He’s never wrong, and he’s not wrong about this. As far as tackling DTs go, 3rd best is the same as 272nd worst, so don’t get too excited about his numbers even though he’s entering not only his 4th season but also the prime of his career which, if history can teach us anything, really only means he’s “primed” to implode. See what I did there? I call that a curve ball. Like in baseball. You know what letters are in the word baseball? B-B-S

Sorry if I just blew your mind.

I hail from the state of Montana. The skies are big and the women are bigger. MMmmm.

by Brick Jobeson on Jun 10, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, you sure did

BTW, you’ve spelt your first name wrong…

by braveheartcolt on Jun 11, 2011 4:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure I know how to spell my fake first name

But thanks for looking out. I mean, can you imagine how embarrassing it would be to actually spell something wrong on the internet?!?!

I hail from the state of Montana. The skies are big and the women are bigger. MMmmm.

by Brick Jobeson on Jun 11, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because 3-4 DEs are supposed to have massive numbers?

Especially the two-gappers…

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Jun 8, 2011 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Chiefs fans love Dorsey.

I doubt they trade him.

I learned more about Dorsey and the 3-4 in the comments of that article than in the actual article.

by James Broschat on Jun 7, 2011 5:40 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

That is way too much cap money invested in players playing non-essential positions on their defense (DE in a 3-4 is like linebacker in a Tampa-2).

tell this to Haloti Ngata on the Ravens. He and the organization might disagree.

The Indianapolis Colts are going to be the 1st team to win a super bowl in their own stadium. 'nuff said.

by It'sAlways18 on Jun 7, 2011 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Unless LBs are crucial to the success of a Tampa-2 defense.

Which they kinda are…

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Jun 8, 2011 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Amen..

Derrick Brooks/Lance Briggs would be very welcome, heh.

Antoine Bethea - the most underrated safety in the NFL.

by Ben Savage on Jun 8, 2011 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or Urlacher...

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Jun 8, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

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