Peyton Manning's Contract: $69 Million First Three Years, $16 Million In 2011
by Brad Wells on Jul 30, 2011 9:29 PM EDT
in 2011 Colts News
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As we often love to pontificate about around these parts, TWITTER IS GRRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT when it comes to getting direct information from a direct source, like, say, Colts owner Jim Irsay.
When the news of Peyton Manning's new contract hit the virtual airways, dorks like me who obsess over all things Colts-related wanted to know, How is the contract spread out? What's the cap hit? Are we going to be able to sign people who have A) Never been on this roster, and B) Can help us win some friggin football games in 2011 (we call these magical people 'free agents')?
Like a galloping steed striding over the sweeping plains, Jim Irsay rode in on his Twitter express and gave us the goodies we ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh so wanted to read:
It's a credit 2 Peyton;he put Coltfans,teammates, Ind. n winning ahead of all else.It's 69 over 1rst 3(23 a yr.1rst 3)90 over 5,cap friendly
SI's Peter King saw the Manning deal numbers, and not long after Irsay posted his tweet, King texted:
Now we see the Manning deal come into focus. $69m over next 3 ($23m per); new TV deal in 2014 will allow the team to re-do it. Sensible.
Jim Irsay apparently hangs on every word King writes on Twitter. He immediately fired back with:
We got good cap relief this year from 23 mil. WITH Franchise Tag-- to 16mil. With new deal- and no P King,No plans 2 redo..I'm done
And thus, thanks to Peter King annoying Irsay to post the numbers, we have something tangible to work with: A number of Peyton in 2011.
Prior to all this Manning deal-making, both the Colts and the media were saying Indy was over the cap. Andrew Brandt said $2.7 mill and John Clayton guessed $1.8 mill over. I have long assumed both were factoring in Peyton's franchise tag tender with that number. That tender would have required the Colts to pay Peyton $23 million in 2011. That figure is a ludicrous cap hit. Indy might as well forfeit the season if they have to pay $23 mill out of a $120 mill cap to just one player.
Thus, moving a player initially counting $23 mill against cap to $16 mill gets the Colts about $5 mill under the cap.
Next, we have the news of Kelvin Hayden getting cut. He was scheduled to count $9.1 mill against this year's cap. His salary was $6.1 mill and his bonus $2.7. From what I know (and that's very little), the bonus counts against cap. Hayden was owed an additional $5.4 mill in bonus money going forward. That money, coupled with this year's bonus, counts against 2011 Colts cap if Hayden is cut.
This means the Colts will carry $8.1 in 'dead cap' for Hayden this year. Thus, Indy frees up $1 mill in cap space for 2011. So, now were down to about $6 mill under the cap.
And then there is Ryan Diem. He's owed $5.4 million in 2011. Cutting him takes $5.4 mill straight off the books. There's no bonus. It's just straight, base salary. If he gets dumped (and I think he will), the Colts are now roughly $11 mill under the cap.
Now, Indy still has rookies to sign, and they just inked Joseph Addai, Adam Vinatieri, and Melvin Bullitt to new deals. We don't know Addai's numbers yet, but Vinny and Bullitt had modest, three-year deals. Again, I'm by no means a math whiz, but if all this figuring is accurate, the Colts do have money right now to sign a free agent or two. Since we know they tried to make a run at Eric Weddle, the Colts do indeed feel that there are, at least, some free agents out there worth pursuing.
This cannot be stressed enough, because it is the plain, simple truth: The Patriots and Eagles have passed the Colts in the talent department, and they did so via free agency and trades. The Packers, Steelers, Ravens, and Jets were already better. The Texans and Jaguars have dramatically improved their rosters, in particular their defenses. Indianapolis barely won the AFC South last year, and it wasn't because of injuries that they were held back. They underachieved because their roster wasn't very good, and Peyton Manning essentially willed them to ten wins.
During this off-season, all the Colts have done is tread water. They've re-signed their own people, now a year older, a year slower. If they want to win a Super Bowl in their home stadium in February, they absolutely MUST dip into the free agent talent pool. If they don't, then Clint Session (a free agent the Colts let go and sign with rival Jacksonville) is right: The Colts aren't contenders anymore.
Rival teams have upped the ante, and if the Polians think that simply signing a few rookie free agents and inking a safety with a metal pin inserted into his shoulder is going to win a championship in 2011, they are, quite simply, deluded. When the opponent ups the ante, you either adapt and respond, or you die. 'Business as usual' will only give you one-and-done in the post-season, at best.
Right now, as currently constructed, this Colts team is not a championship-caliber team. I know it. You know it. Peyton Manning knows it, which is why he took less than many anticipated so that the front office could use the extra bread on new players. Unless we see some new faces on this roster that have significant talent and experience, this 2011 Colts team probably won't even win the AFC South.
As we often say around here: Playoffs are expected. Playoff wins are expected. Super Bowls are expected. Anything less is failure, and in three of the past four years, the Colts have been one-and-done in the playoffs. That is not 'success,' my friends. It is nothing to be 'proud' of. Maybe for Lions fans, that's winning, but for teams that are supposed to work at the highest standard possible, making the playoffs and losing is no different than not making the playoffs.
In order for this team to compete against the top tier, they need new players from the veteran free agent market, or they need to trade for someone. If they don't, then this is another lost season, and we have to wait until 2012 (with a 36-year-old Peyton Manning) before we maybe can start thinking about another Lombardi Trophy.
Cap numbers from ColtsCap.net
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I disagree
I’m no Colt fan, but really? This pessimistic? The Pats being better, yea, thats likely true. The Steelers? Maybe. The Packers? Possible. But the Eagles, Jets, and Ravens? I’m sorry, but I just can’t see any of those last three teams doing better then the Colts.
Furthermore, I doubt the Texans or Jags stand a chance of winning the division. Anything can happen, but you don’t put together a team in 1-2 seasons. The Colts are in trouble, and yes, they do need FA help. Just not that badly.
Yankees suck.
by New Century Silver on Jul 30, 2011 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Seriously
Have you been following the player transactions? This comment reads like you’ve been under a rock for four days.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
Teams aren't built in a day
or week, or year. Teams can be improved by these additions, but at the end of the day its not going to make that big a difference right off the bat.
Yankees suck.
by New Century Silver on Jul 30, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actaully
In the NFL, they.
Teams go from 3-13 one year to 13-3 the next.
Just look at the ‘08-’09 Saints, the ‘07-’08 Falcons, and the ‘09-’10 Bears just to name a few similar teams. It’s all about winning now, especially when our QB is 35-years-old and coming off his third surgery in four years.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
Of those teams, only one went to the Superbowl.
And all of them faded back to barely making the playoffs afterwords.
Yankees suck.
by New Century Silver on Jul 30, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
'faded back to barely making the playoffs afterwords'
Falcons won the NFC South in 2010.
Saints went back to the playoffs in 2010.
We haven’t seen the 2011 Bears yet, but their roster looks pretty damn good. They just signed Amobi Okoye to a one-year deal, and he will replace Tommie Harris, who was always hurt.
Next time, please get some facts.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
Saints as a wildcard
Thats barely making it into the playoffs. While your right about the Falcons, they were one-and-done. I still don’t believe it with the falcons, and I doubt the Bears will win the NFC North this year.
Look at the Vikings – They got Favre, went to the NFCCG one year, and the next were nearly last in their division.
Yankees suck.
by New Century Silver on Jul 30, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
"Actually, In the NFL, they."
This sentence no verb.
I don’t really have anything to add. Both sides make good points. Keeping players brings consistency and signing dynamic vets brings ability. It’s a balancing act with no true answer. Colts don’t really need a stud, just an upgrade with a guy that fits the system. Some don’t like Tommie Harris, but he fits our system and is better than what we have now. If he returns to form he’s a force.
But who knows? Maybe Fili and Nevis make a great tandem and unleash hell. Maybe everyone gets hurt again like last year. You balance vets with consistency and you gamble with personnel. It sucks when it doesn’t work but is exciting when it does. That’s the vitality of the game that other sports miss.
by ActionOxford on Jul 30, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
I only saw one report of us trying to sign Weddle and it seemed like it didn’t hold any water. Secondly, injuries didn’t affect our season last year? Are you kidding? Did you see us against Jacksonville when Collie was healthy? No Dallas Clark? That doesn’t hurt us? What about injuries on defense? Not having Addai was no big deal either, I guess.
For the past three days you have been on here whining about the Pats signing washed up OchoStinko and fat boy Haynesworth, who didn’t even pass his conditioning test, again. Give it up, dude. You are counting the Colts out before the season even starts because we aren’t gobbling up every damn FA in desperation. We had a great draft and FA has just begun. We don’t need “superstar” names to win, we need solid role players who will support the O and be tough up front. I’d say the Colts are a strong contender, as always. Sorry if you disagree.
My blood-type is Colts and FORD blue.
by Stew Blake on Jul 30, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
This is the truth
Ya, I’d love a big FA signing just as much as the next guy, but to claim that the Colts are falling rapidly behind due to the Pats signing Haynesworth (I actually do think Ochocinco will do well there) is just silly. He was a bust in Washington, he’ll be a bust in NE too.
Also, injuries were a major factor in the difficulties last season, both on O and D. The fact that this article tries to claim that injuries were not a factor last season complete invalidates everything.
Dallas Clark: Some tight ends catch. Some block. Clark just owns.
by Sir Sci on Jul 30, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup.
A bunch of garbage has been spewed on here the last couple of days.
My blood-type is Colts and FORD blue.
Completely agree with leftysmoke
BBS and Clint Sessions are the only two saying that Colts are no longer contenders in the AFC South. Can we trade BBS to the Jags? They made lots of FA moves…
"It's about the journey--mine and yours--and the lives we can touch, the legacy we can leave, and the world we can change for the better."
— Tony Dungy
by Mark Olson on Jul 31, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
the eagles
are def better at this point…but hopefully vick goes. colts are right there with the ravens and jets but that solely because of their mediocre qb play
by BLOODontheTRACKS on Jul 30, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Pats, Packers, Steelers, and Eagles if they put everything together,
Are better than the Colts. Doesn’t mean the Colts can’t win against them, but for now they’d be expected to win less than half the time.
The Jets haven’t improved anything from last year, and have likely gone backwards, and they were equal to the Colts last year anyway. Push.
Ravens, push.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
patriots
you do know the pats cut ty warren,gerard warren, tully banta cain,who lead the team in sacks and nick kazur. Oh and fat albert can’t pass a physical yet. I dont think they have improved
Ocho
alone means they have improved. I hated, absolutely hated, the Warren cut, but I don’t see how they haven’t improved.
Yankees suck.
by New Century Silver on Jul 30, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
flip a coin
I think pairing him with Brady helps but Chad just doesnt seem like the 0ld chad…this reaks of a joey galloway signing
by Trav19purdue on Jul 30, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
the guy who was shown up last season by a 37 year old whos now a FA?
sorry, but Ocho looked like he was completely washed up last year. Maybe he will have a torch relit under him at the pats, but if it were my team, I wouldnt want to touch the guy.
What did he have?
Like 800 yards with an awful QB passing to him?
Yankees suck.
by New Century Silver on Jul 30, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
not since his rookie season did he manage a lower number of touchdowns
Jacob Tamme managed 4 TD’s, Blair White managed 5. 831 yards put him 28th among WR’’s last season, but he was 15th in targets.
Carson Palmer is not awful.
The rest of the team is awful. Tough to judge any talent on the Bengals since it’s such a mess.
by ActionOxford on Jul 30, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You didn't watch the Bengals play last year.
Palmer is no longer the good NFL QB he once was (he may even have been better than good). He’s average now, and getting worse.
Ocho’s numbers are down because TO demanded the ball, and would tear strips off his QB if he didn’t deliver (Garcia, Macnabb, Romo). Ocho’s never done that. And TO’s a better redzone threat than Ocho anyway, so TDs that may have been 85’s in the past were going to Gresham and TO on the other side.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by ISN on Jul 31, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very good points
The Indianapolis Colts are going to be the 1st team to win a super bowl in their own stadium. 'nuff said.
by It'sAlways18 on Jul 31, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Ocho is slow
He can’t break away from coverage. He was outplayed last year by TO! He’s never been incredible outside of the year Palmer tore his ACL. The guy is over-hyped because of his TD celebrations and his media personality…
"It's about the journey--mine and yours--and the lives we can touch, the legacy we can leave, and the world we can change for the better."
— Tony Dungy
Ty Warren and Nick Kaczur didn't play last year.
TBC was the worst OLB on the roster and G Warren was a free agent they didn’t bother to resign because he’s too old (too old to play a full season, which is why they benched him for the 3rd quarter of the season).
I’d say that the team improved just on the basis of the youth improving. Their offense is fine, no one will dispute that. On defense, Chung, McCourty, Mayo, Spikes, Guyton, Fletcher, Cunningham, Ninkovich, Moore, Brace, and Deaderick were all in their first three seasons with the Patriots and (other than Moore) the league. They’ll improve just based on experience (and 8 of them are starters).
But purely based on free agent acquisitions, I believe that while the team has improved, the names are blowing it slightly out of proportion. Ocho is a great receiver. He’ll be a great addition to the Patriots’ offense. However, he’s not ‘07 Randy Moss. He’s more of a mid-season Deion Branch acquisition. He’ll be great for another 75 reception, 900 yard season- and that’s great. It’s just not as much of a world changing event as people are saying. He will improve the offense, no doubt, but it’s not earth shattering.
Haynesworth, on the other hand, has the chance to have a huge impact. However, he’s a coin flip. He either busts or he breaks out. He won’t be “okay.” I’m leaning towards “break out” because I’m a Patriots fan and I believe his decrease in production was a personal choice, not a deterioration in skill. That said, it’s hard to give a question mark a lot of weight. He might be able to help this team a tremendous amount. He might not.
Ocho has a higher floor. Haynesworth has a higher ceiling. Neither pick-up is of the magnitude of grabbing a sure player like Nnamdi or Ray Edwards. They’re both potential positives, but they’re far from guarantees.
by Richard Hill on Jul 30, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
free agency
I hope the colts sign some good DT’S…that being said when was the last time a team who one free agency or was a superbowl favorite going into the season actually won a super bowl?
Packers…nope, Saints….nope, Steelers….nope….
Giants…nope, Colts…nope
Ocho
Means next to nothing hes not that great of a player to improve the patriots they did well last year and arent going to do any better than that because of him being added.
I also dont believe the Jets, Ravens, or eagles are better than the Colts we do well against the ravens already and the jets game we lost was just a FUBAR 50 seconds not reflecting how we beat them the year before. As for the eagles, Vicks running is deadly but at the same time Manning was able to keep up with offensive scores for the most part but we all know run stopping is a huge weakness.
If we could actually get some INTs the Steelers would be easy Ben throws them up as much as Farve
injuries
Yeah pretty sure the loss of Session, Sanders, Bullitt, Hayden, Powers, Clark, Gonzo, Collie amongst others hurt a little :)
by Trav19purdue on Jul 30, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting that u say that
Because three of the eight player you mentioned won’t be on the Colts in 2011, and another one (Gonzalez) won’t play unless Collie, Wayne, or Garcon get hurt.
So, yeah, again I’ll re-iterate that injuries weren’t the problem. The Colts couldn’t stop the run to save our lives and their offensive line was a joke Both those problems had nothing to do with injuries.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
the problem wasnt that the guys were impossible to replace
its that it took Blair White a few games to understand the offence. It took Francisco a number of games to settle. Tryon started to look better later on in the season. I reckon about 3-4 of the games we lost were done to the replacements simply not having the experience or understanding.
Injuries WERE the problem last year. U ignore them every time u make these ridiculously pessimistic one-sided arguments.
They would have been better at running the ball without running back injuries. WR injuries as well the Colts often pass to set up the run. They would have been better on defensive without injuries on defense.
You are absolutely blind to pretend injuries were not a major factor on last years team. Every football expert who talked about Colts last year mentioned injuries.
It is impossible to take what you write seriously.
by moocow on Jul 30, 2011 10:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Them being off the team now doesn't change the fact that
their injuries played a part in the Colts performance last season.
"Cat in the wall, eh? Ok, now you're talking my language. I know this game."
-Charlie
by Addai Another Aday on Jul 31, 2011 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Another thing we must consider, folks
If last year taught us anything it’s that we cannot expect Peyton Manning to carry this team anymore. He needs help. LOTS of help. If we think we’re going to win a ring with a defense that allows that many rushing yards and an offense that throws 50 passes a game, we’re all a bunch of morons.
Peyton is 35. It’s time the front office start treating him, and this roster, in a similar way the Broncos treated Elway in his twilight. Get him a running game. Get him a defense.
Right now, the Colts don’t have either. JMO.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
actually
they should have been in that mode starting 2yr ago
by BLOODontheTRACKS on Jul 30, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I do agree however
So far the D is not going to get it done as is….still 300 or so free agents out there so lets add a few
by Trav19purdue on Jul 30, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Well let's see
We’ve got some new line guys our vet RB a new one I trust that if these guys are as good as we hope Manning and Addai will have them whipped into shape its more our defense that i worry about with it seems like we lost more than we gained (player wise not talent in particular) so far
Your comments and obsession
with FAs is completely laughable. When is the last NFL team that became great via free agency? By your logic, the Redskins should have been in the elite of the NLF for the last 7 years.
The Colts struggled for one – AND ONLY ONE – reasone all of last year. THe OL was terrible. Horrible. The worst I have ever seen over the last 15+ years as far as running the football.
The front office has been reasonably proactive in trying to deal with it. You get a OL that can be average at running the football…this team has the capability to looks as dominant as any other year.
the patriots and eagles
are not the redskins. the are both top flight organizations with excellent coaches.
by BLOODontheTRACKS on Jul 30, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't care about the Eagles
and the Pats added two players that are marginal additions at best. Seriously, you are concerned about Fat Albert and Ocho? Such tremendous talents that their teams would allow them to go and get next to nothing for them? That should tell you all there is to know.
Typically I would agree
but the Pats have had success in giving little-to-nothing for big additions (Randy Moss). Still, I think the Ocho Cinco and Haynesworth signings are wildly overrated.
'completely laughable'
Knock off the trollish comments. Saying something is ‘completely laughable,’ and then offering up nothing to reinforce WHY you think it’s laughable is similar to trolling. You could have written the last two sentences and conveyed your point just fine without the nonsense in the first paragraph.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
yeah
i am worried. the pats were better than us last year and the added a big tall reciever who now has one of the all time greats throwing to him. and with fat albert they gave up next to nothing for guys with a huge amount of talent.
by BLOODontheTRACKS on Jul 30, 2011 10:28 PM EDT reply actions
Let me see if I have this right...
…the Colts just signed one of the greatest QBs ever to five more years with this team today and you guys want to spend your time today – TODAY!!!!! – bickering about Haynesworth and Ocho going to the Pats?
Unreal.
Perspective folks. Perspective.
like
his being a colts was ever in doubt
by BLOODontheTRACKS on Jul 30, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
not only that, we've signed 2 veteran FA QBs
You’ve got to give them props for finding decent arms to help take up the slack while Peyton rehabs the next few weeks. And Curtis Painter, one of the favorite whipping boys here, has some hungry, experienced competitors in Nate Davis (a great change of pace to practice against, at least) and Dan “The Eagle” Orlovsky (“oryol” = eagle in Russian).
Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy
by zherebyonki on Jul 30, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been critical of the Colts not trying to get some help in FA.
I think that there are non premium players that can help the Colts, especially in the depth department. Saying that we are not contenders is ignorant. We made the playoffs with half the team on IR. Do I think we have a serious shot at winning the SB, no. We will probably make the playoffs and suffer another frustrating defeat early on. We have not addressed our problems against teams like the Jets, Pats, Chargers, Steelers ect…
I really don’t like to get critical of writers. I appreciate their efforts and enjoy this site. But when the head writer, editor, whatever comes out and writes reactionary trash like this, I wonder if he takes this site seriously. It’s one thing to criticize, it’s another to rant and rave when you are completely ruled by your emotions and have little to no rational behind it.
by strandedincarolina on Jul 30, 2011 10:45 PM EDT reply actions
About last season.
BBS I understand what your trying to convey, and maybe I’m just being overly optimistic but I just don’t see the Colts sinking as much as you think for a few reasons.
First off, yes I believe injuries had something to do with the Colts having an off year. I’m sorry but losing the first 3 starting strong safeties, an all star TE, a slot receiver who was until his concussions leading the nfl in reception and yards (could be wrong there but I know that he was very close to top). This does not help any team, and for me at least, to say that the Colts would have been in the exact same position even if they were healthy is stretching the truth by a lot.
Secondly, while I do wholeheartedly agree that the Colts really need to address there defense I feel like the offensive line has been addressed for the most part. I truly feel like our first 2 picks in the draft will be studs, or at the very least an upgrade as to what we had last year. To me, that’s going to translate into an improved running game, and a few more tenths of a second for Peyton to pass the ball.
I just don’t feel like the Colts have been sitting ducks is all. Could they have done more? Sure, I personally would love a new DT and CB. I feel like they could still go all the way this year, but I’m beginning to think that I’m the only one who does.
by parcel621 on Jul 30, 2011 10:46 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Oh, BBS
Not at all sure why you have been SO pessimistic the past 2 years or so. I don’t question your fandom, but your point of view is getting to be a bit over the top. I know a lot of it has to do with needing to get page hits and comments, but I don’t see how you can possibly think this team is all of a sudden so much worse than before because they didn’t throw money at any available player just to say they did it.
With Addai redone, and hopefully CJ soon to follow, this team is exactly where it was last season – except healthier and with some newer, better pieces as part of the pie too.
Again, the offseason is still underway and the roster situation is still fluid. Give it time and at least wait until the first half of the season is over and the Colts are 1-7 to say the end is here. Until that (and we know it isn’t going to happen), just let things play out and enjoy the ride.
Manning did this team a favor with his contract and I expect the front office to reward him, and the team, with a solid pickup or two and some positive vibes going into the preseason.
Go Colts.
I don't always drink beer....but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
'SO pessimistic the past 2 years or so'
Last year I was pessimistic, and rightly so:
I said the o-line wasn’t good, and it wasn’t.
I said Peyton Manning played all of 2010 hurt, and he did.
I said Bob Sanders and Anthony Gonzalez were injury prone Glass Joes, which they are.
However, in 2009, I thought we had a good team and I was pretty upbeat most of the year.
I’m a realist, not a mindless cheerleader who responds to criticism with a ‘clap louder or you aren’t a true fan’ mentality that sometimes infects our fanbase. I’m not saying you personally are this type of fan (because you aren’t), but what you and these ‘clap louder’ folks take for pessimism is actually just plain, common sense.
And you know something else: Everyone who covers this league is thinking the exact same thing I am. This team isn’t good enough. It just isn’t. They’ve been passed over by teams like NE and Philly.
As with all things on this blog, this is just my opinion. But, unlike some of the others comments, common sense and practicality are the basis of my thoughts, not blind adherence to a philosophy that has produced three one-and-done playoff runs in four years. One of the principles of the ‘clap louder’ crowd is they think the Polian philosophy in recent years has worked, when in reality it hasn’t.
One-and-done isn’t success. Not for this franchise. Maybe Detroit, Cincy, and Tampa Bay like that, but we’re supposed to be better than that. we’re supposed to be elite. One-and-done isn’t elite. JMO.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
Maybe I'm a mindless fanboy
But I think getting Dallas Clark back healthy will jump start the offense, and perhaps a healthy Austin Collie will too. Oh, and a better o-line.
Ya, the D still needs a lot of work. I’m scared to see what will happen if a better safety isn’t picked up, but I am very optimistic about to offense this upcoming season.
Dallas Clark: Some tight ends catch. Some block. Clark just owns.
One more thing
If the Colts had traded a fifth round pick in 2013 for Albert Haynesworth, this blog would have lit up with posts proclaiming the genius of the Polians. all you people in here bashing the Patriots for making this move would have done a complete 180 if the Colts had done.
Don’t try and say different. You’re just lying to me, your fellow readers, and probably to yourself.
If the Colts had traded late-round picks for Chad Ochocinco, or signed Amobi Okoye or Barrett Ruud to one-year deals (the way Chicago and Tenn did, respectively) this place would have lit up with ZOMG! WE’RE AWESOME NOW posts. I’ve covered this team for years. I know what turns the needle. If those moves were made by the Colts, all of you in here, ALL OF YOU, would be crowing ‘#championship!’
But, because the Polians didn’t do this, and other teams that (in many cases) have had more recent success did, some of you aren’t being critical or logical, but are rather trying to rationalize why our front office is sitting on its hands. That’s not thinking. That’s not being critical.
That’s just clapping louder, and hoping the noise cancels out the truth that other teams got better while we simply tread water. JMO.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
In my opinion
That sort of over the top generalization is asking for backlash and is why a lot of people get angry at you. For the most part you are probably right but saying that every single person would be that way is utterly ridiculous. I for one would think we’d be worse off with chad and dont have a opinion one way or the other on those other guys.
I think we should give credit for the offensive improvements and hope that now the defense will get some attention too and we’ll be in good shape
No the Polains didnt make the best or perfect moves in the draft and FA but we didnt get 20 donald browns either.
by C.Settles on Jul 30, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mad
People get mad at me for reasons that often don’t make sense, like when I said last year this time that Anthony Gonzalez was the 4th wide receiver. Half this site lost it’s mind. We Colts fans (and I put myself in this category, because I’m the same way) get mad and freak out over silly things. It’s what we are known for. I’m semi-numb to it now.
That said, while I am sure you believe what you say RE: Chad, I noticed how you didn’t bring up Albert Haynesworth, Amobi Okoye, or Barrett Ruud. Please understand, I’ve written about this team for a while and I am knowledgeable of this fanbase, and EVERYONE here, and I mean everyone, would be cheering and screaming like Scarface in a cocaine store if we had made the FA moves the Patriots did two days ago. And even if you truly don’t think the Colts would benefit from having Chad Ochocino, you would very much be in the minority if you were booing the move in a ‘Colts Trade Peanuts For Chad Ochocinco’ thread. Likely, the people in this thread making fun of the move would be ripping you apart if you were negative about the trade in a thread like that.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
“I for one would think we’d be worse off with chad and dont have a opinion one way or the other on those other guys” I was referring to Al, Amobi, Barret in the last part i just didnt feel like typing out names.
i completely agree that i would be one of few who wouldnt be excited and i too notice that people go batshit over nearly everything.
I am merely saying that by making point that every single person sways with the breeze on this site is fuel for the fire even though its mostly true many people dont wanna think that way and theyll mindlessly fight.
I am trying to reasonably disagree and say theres a solid 2% that wouldnt flip in a heartbeat if those picks went to us
I disagree
Most people know that Haynesworth is a lazy distraction that would be a poor fit on the team, even though he would demand double teams, and I think only a small minority of people would actually hope to have him on the Colts. I also think he’s more valuable to that team than the Colts, where it’s not even certain he’d be that valuable.
Chad doesn’t fit, because the receiver cabinet is already well-stocked. If they acquired him we would’ve just wondered why that was worth a draft pick. (Note: you said the Pats were active in FA, but both those guys were trades.)
That’s not to say the Pats didn’t improve, because they did. But I think you’re underestimating your audience.
(And stop saying the Ravens are better than the Colts. They’re not even close. And now with Nnamdi out of the picture, I think we can all safely say the Jets have actually probably gotten worse, at least so far. Which is a relief.)
Through all of this complaining you’ve been doing, you’ve been mostly silent about just WHO they should be adding. It’s all well and good to say that we’re not improving (I agree) but it’s not as if there are tons of good fits out there. 4-3 Nose Tackles don’t just grow on trees. I like Ruud, but we don’t need another Mike. Okoye is a nice player but he’s a 3-tech and was cut by an inferior team whose defense was worse than ours. Jenkins is (was) an injury risk. Weddle was overpriced. If you were GM, who would you have added to the team in the past week? With Hayden and Diem now gone (we think) and Peyton signed, just what have they even done wrong, in your view?
I share your impatience with the defense and the concern about the window closing. I’m 100% in favor of doing whatever possible to improve the chances of winning… I differ in that I think this CAN be a championship-caliber team, but it just as easily cannot. I don’t like the “let’s just hope everyone executes better and we don’t get unlucky” vibe though. Because bad luck always happens, and noone ever plays perfectly.
But I don’t see any obvious solutions. Do you?
by willyduer on Jul 31, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
BBS you have absolutely no merit in this statement...
“EVERYONE here, and I mean EVERYONE, would be cheering and screaming….if we had made the FA moves the Patriots did two days ago”.
That is complete Bullshit. You may try and say I’m lying to myself, but I don’t have to do that to sleep well at night. I do think they are solid pickups, mostly because they gave up a bicycle and some gatorade for the acquisitions. But I honestly don’t fear the Patriots any bit more, now that they’ve traded for Ochocinco & Albert Haynesworth. Heck, I think they have just as much of a chance at destroying that locker room as they do of having a valuable impact this season.
Would I have liked picking up 85 for a season or two? Meh, I really don’t know if he’d be any better than Pierre Garcon – who’s career is still blossoming while Chad’s is declining. I would’ve been disgusted if the team traded for Albert Haynesworth – a player whom I watched stomp on the face of helmet-less Cowboys player a few years ago. A player who has countless off-the-field issues. And a player who hasn’t been effective in 2+ years, has no work ethic, no motivation, and is an out-of-shape, immature fatty.
You can claim that the majority on here, or the consensus around here would be applauding such moves. That’s fair. But grouping myself in with everybody else (not trying to sounds like a douche – I just mean broad categorization) is an insult to individuals, and it’s downright irresponsible. You should know better than to think you can speak for every single Colts fan. I understand your frustrations, but report on these things accurately. You don’t lose any credibility if you say things like “most people”, or “the majority”…In fact, you probably lose credibility and anger a lot of individuals when you think you know how every single fan is going to react.
That's what fans do.
If it’s their team, it’s a great move, if it’s the rival, it’s “Fat Albert and Ocho Stinko”. Or “Clint Session sucks”.
People need to maintain some level of objectivity, and can’t be afraid to criticise their team if they think X is a bad move.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by ISN on Jul 31, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said
Thank you.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue and editor of SB Nation Indiana.
Ruud
But yes I wanted Ruud bad and have for years now.
I don't always drink beer....but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
by AceOfSpades on Jul 31, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd be upset if we had traded for Haynesworth and Ochocinco.
As for Okoye and Ruud, I’d love that one. Actually, one of my best friends is a New England native, life-long Pats fan, and finder of the only Sawks bar in Nashville. Here’s what he texted me upon hearing of the Haynesworth trade:
What? Why? We don’t need that fat * expletive *! Why bother with a pain in the ass like that?
"Cat in the wall, eh? Ok, now you're talking my language. I know this game."
-Charlie
by Addai Another Aday on Jul 31, 2011 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
And then he probably thought about it a bit,
And realised that IF Haynesworth plays like he’s capable of playing, it’s a good move? Or did he hate the Dillon and Harrison signings after the Super Bowl those years, and the Moss trade after 2 blowout wins in 07?
I’ll admit that I’m a tad concerned about the effect he could have on the rest of the team, even if he’s cut before he does anything outrageous. But given they kept a disgruntled Moss for a few weeks, there should be enough leaders there capable of keeping the locker room in order if there’s one incident. There won’t be a second one.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Nope.
He’s still not happy about it.
"Cat in the wall, eh? Ok, now you're talking my language. I know this game."
-Charlie
by Addai Another Aday on Jul 31, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Okoye is pass rushign DT, seems like a Colts type of player?
And Rudd is gangster, i have him in a fantasy league of mine and he is productive to say the least
Go Blue!
Revenue - Expenses = Profit
by dezznutz1001 on Jul 31, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
rudd signed with titans
and okoye signed with da bears
by BLOODontheTRACKS on Jul 31, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree
I would have been upset that $5mil in cap space would have been wasted on a guy who is selfish, lazy, and self-entitled. The guy has had a couple of years. He’s the poster child for ‘got paid and done’. Even before he failed his physical there were a lot of Patriots fans groaning at the signing.
"It's about the journey--mine and yours--and the lives we can touch, the legacy we can leave, and the world we can change for the better."
— Tony Dungy
I dunno what you are talking about but dotn stereotype
I would have bashed the SHIT outta the Haynesworth signing if we had signed him, hes TROUBLE. There are plenty of team oriented DT’s out there who dont suffer from road rage that we could have.
But I would have loved to see Ocho here for a 1 or 2 year experiment…If Peyton got sick of him he would have been sent packing…just like i bet will happen if Brady and BB sour on him
Go Blue!
Revenue - Expenses = Profit
by dezznutz1001 on Jul 31, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats why they play the games
Super Bowls aren’t won on paper. Let’s see how the season plays out before we announce that the team already isn’t good enough to win.
See: 2001 Patriots, 2002 Bucs, 2005 Steelers, 2006 Colts, 2007 Giants, 2009 Saints, 2010 Packers
None of those teams were considered best on paper going into that season.
I don't always drink beer....but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
by AceOfSpades on Jul 31, 2011 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I love the Colts
but I was born in Michigan, so i still follow the Lions…To make a long point short, I saw MORE talent on the Lions last year than on the Colts.
While the Colts have better and MORE top tier guys; Manning, Freeney, Clark, Mathis and Wayne, we dont have alot of depth, AND we are getting old….As units go, the Secondary the Colts was better but than the Lions 2ndary but thats it.
The Lions have only one top tier guy in Calvin Johnson, You can add in Suh if you like, but their D-LINE is WAAAY better and for the first time in 10 years, i think the Lions had a better O-line then we did…in fact I know with 100% certianty they did.
Trust me, injuries were a major key to last years demise, but there isnt a lot of talent here and there is No depth. Theres no way the Lions back-up Qb’s could have taken over here for Manning and the team still improve or win a few, Our O-line was THAT bad.
Peyton is the reason for our continued play-off run..hopefully now with his contract issue taken care of we can add those couple pieces we need to strengthen or talent as much as add to our depth
Go Blue!
Revenue - Expenses = Profit
by dezznutz1001 on Jul 31, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting take
The Lions have definitely been adding talent the past few years (seemingly ever since Matt Millen left).
But the Colts have a better QB, a better stable of RB’s, much better WR’s, much better TE’s, and a better secondary.
The Lions have a better OLine & a much better (interior) DLine.
You may have thought the Lions had more talent last season – which is fair – but it’s most likely because the Colts were playing with their backup TE’s, 5th string WR’s, 3rd & 4th string RB’s, backup DT’s & LB’ers, a countless rotation of CB’s, and a 5th string SS.
People forget that team was 16-2 holding a 4th quarter lead in the SuperBowl just 16 months ago. And since then, we haven’t lost much talent, and are coming off the heels of what seems to be a great draft.
Free agency over reactors
Remember, only 3 AFC teams ever go to the Super Bowl: Steelers, Pats and Colts. This cycle has repeated for roughly 11 years now. That is 11 freaking years. You would think we wouldn’t panic by now. If an injured Manning can take a practice squad and almost beat the Jets in the playoffs, that tells me that we are BETTER than they are when healthy. That same Jets team beat the Pats. The big market teams, Boston and New York, of course are going to brag and get the lion share of attention, but I guarantee you they do not want to play us when we are healthy. A healthy Colts team will carve both of those teams up. Now, the Steelers are a different bird. I kind of fear them :)
steelers are dangerous
With our current defensive situation but Ben is more likely to throw picks and screw his team than Manning is and if we can get some play makers picking off Bens cannon throws should be easy. I mean just look at the last superbowl it was like Farve playing and that counts for both teams with the picks they had
How do you sit there with a straight face and say injuries played no part and there roster was just bad?? Free agents arent the end all be all of football teams… How do you know any of them are going to pan out? I love this site for the news but you absolutely baffle me with how clueless you are?? It makes it hard to keep visiting here…
I'm going to wait
for the season to start before I start making judgements on who did what to help themselves.
"Cat in the wall, eh? Ok, now you're talking my language. I know this game."
-Charlie
by Addai Another Aday on Jul 31, 2011 2:00 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Here is a lovely generality that I just want to put up here once--
then I’m back to good sense and if you don’t agree then that works for you: BBS, the same kind of generalization and demeaning comments you abhor are exactly what fans and readers of this site see every day.
“This cannot be stressed enough, because it is the plain, simple truth: The Patriots and Eagles have passed the Colts in the talent department, and they did so via free agency and trades. The Packers, Steelers, Ravens, and Jets were already better. The Texans and Jaguars have dramatically improved their rosters, in particular their defenses. Indianapolis barely won the AFC South last year, and it wasn’t because of injuries that they were held back. They underachieved because their roster wasn’t very good, and Peyton Manning essentially willed them to ten wins.”
Can you provide statistics to prove that this is true? That these teams, by adding, having, or losing certain players are now better or have been better than this Colts organization? If not, this is mindless generalizing and there is not a place for it in a community like this. Fans don’t come here to be told their business and they don’t read the site to see you complain constantly about the team. There is no balance here. This is what the biggest issue seems to be.
Okay, I’m done voicing this particular beef. Back to football talk.
Madden Rankings.
We could use Madden Rankings.
"Cat in the wall, eh? Ok, now you're talking my language. I know this game."
-Charlie
by Addai Another Aday on Jul 31, 2011 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
OH!
Then we could really see how silly this discussion could get.
by AnotherWriter on Jul 31, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Brady is the best QB then, end of argument.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Surprised all these comments and none about the contract...
I was not a math major but if the first three years are worth $69M and Manning will get $16M in 2011, doesn’t that mean Manning gets $53M in 2012 and 2013? That is $26.5M both years? How is that cap savings? The salary cap won’t increase that much in the next three years. Perhaps the reason the Colts cut Hayden was not so much for the $1M savings in 2011 but the $7-9M (only guessing here) savings in the next two years after this to pay for Manning’s increase. Years 4 and 5 of the contract go to $10.5M a year when he is ages 39 and 40. If he plays out those years. With an assumed cap increase due to the new TV contract in 2014, they Colts would have a huge cap savings. Perhaps to replace Manning with a free agent QB? Also, why is Peter King talking about renegotiating Manning’s contract in the years he is to get the lowest amounts? My math must be off. Or maybe part of the $69M in 2012 and 2013 is a roster bonus the Colts are planning to spread over the last 3 or 4 years? Agree, the cap implications are much more intereting than talking about who got “better” this week.
by Utah Colt Fan on Jul 31, 2011 2:40 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
16M against the cap in 2011
He still gets paid 23M in 2011. It just means he counts 16M against the cap the way it’s structured.
"It's about the journey--mine and yours--and the lives we can touch, the legacy we can leave, and the world we can change for the better."
— Tony Dungy
For BBS, BotT or others that are screaming about the lack of FA signings
I typed a response that was WAY to long for here (IMO) so I made it a fanpost. Linked below. Not trying to avoid anyone, just not wanting to take up an entire screen.
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2011/7/31/2306900/the-deal-that-isnt-made
Yeah, I'm Shure.
BBS
You make an interesting argument dude. I wake up every morning looking for the COLTS, to have signed ANYBODY! Fuck!
Balance
Like an earlier post said thats what we need. Still build thru drafting, but pick-up that one or 2 key FA’s we might need to fill holes, add depth.
We DONT need to go the Deadskin route and overspend, we dont even need to “gamble” on a few players ala the Pats.
The fact we continue to build well through the draft and are able to re-sign many of them is a credit to Polian and Co.
But BBS has a point, and its that Polian is a bit to much…uh arrogant, i guess? If you cant see the woods thru the trees then at times you will be unable to admit that one of your key dratees isnt workign out, or more importanly your SCHEME needs some fiddling as its not perfect and has holes that other teams can expolit. Then you MUST addres that need in FA…
…and trust me, FA is a crapshoot like the draft…not all FA’s are FA’s cuz they wouldnt rework their contract or the team needed cap space…or the Asomaugha example where he was a STAR who wanted OUT!
Most are FA’s cuz they couldnt produce anymore…Pat Williams comes to mind…I hope we DONT sign him, Just like I’m glad we didnt go after haynesworth…Tommie harris, well they Bears drafted a DT in Paea and then signed Okoyai, will either one work out better than Harris? Only time will tell, but the Bears seem to think soo…
We all believe that any DT will be better than Muir, and the Cotls lack of activity in addressing that specific area is what is enflaming this arguement EVEN more
Go Blue!
Revenue - Expenses = Profit
Great stuff BBS
Truer words have never been spoken. Window is closing and we must do something about it. Concur 100%.
BBS----So much for your judgement
Well so much for this site———really do you whatch any games? I hope you are better at your real job—use car sales——really
Wow
I moved to Madison, WI a few years ago so I’m not as familiar with the central Indiana climate as the rest of the blog probably is. That being said, I am SHOCKED to find out that the recent heat wave has literally caused the sky to fall in Indy.
Serioiusly, this post lost all credibility as soon as you said that injuries didn’t cause the team to fail last year.
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