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Could the Colts succeed in a 3-4 defensive look?

Clearly the defense cannot stop the run.  Theoretically, the 4-3 defense is supposed to improve run defense by filling gaps with down lineman and eliminating running space.  This does not work for the Colts because people like Fili Moala and Antonio Johnson lose their 1 on 1 matchup 75% of the time and get pushed back. Stampede Blue really needs to stop praising Johnson.  I can't remember the last play that guy made. Dont let your psychological biases control you. Just because he is the biggest fat ass on the team does not mean he is an effective space eater type player.  Anyways...... clearly, those against running a 3-4 would point out to me that doing this will eliminate the pass rush effectiveness of Freeney and Mathis.  Freeney gets double teamed anyway and he is good enough to find creative ways to get to the QB. 

  Freeney gets double teamed in the 4-3 look anyway is good enough to find creative ways to get to the QB. Filling out the 2 other down lineman positions would be Nevis (our new best DT) and a rotation of Moala/ Johnson.  Mathis would then become the Colts version of Mario Williams.  He and Kavell Conner (NOT GARY B.!) would be the 2 inside linebackers and Brackett and Angerer would be the OLBs.  Sick of Gary Brackett getting praise too.  The guy is OK in pass coverage but gets blocked way too easily and is a serious weakness against the run.  Mathis is athletic enough to help fill running gaps quickly as well as play the pass.  Mathis rushing up the middle would be interesting and Nevis will draw enough attention for Mathis to get through.  

Most importantly, switching to the 3-4 would force our defense to play more aggressive.  The corners would have to jam receivers and the linebackers would have to blitz. We could even get really crazy and blitz Bethea like the Steelers do with Troy.   I am tired of seeing the colts line up in their predictable 4-3 tampa 2 and get the ball shoved down their throats.  I don't give a damn about giving up "the big play".  In our defenses current state is it clear that the other team will have the ball inside our 30 at some point of in the drive anyway.  

And who knows maybe Jerry Hughes will find a contributing niche in the 3-4.  Haynesworth bitched about being in a 3-4 when he played for Washington, so maybe defensive alignment does somewhat does matter in player production. Maybe it is enough of a difference to squeeze some worth out of Hughes.  Although, I wouldn't count on it.  Looking back on film on him in college I still see nothing outstanding.  

Anyways.... What do yall think?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

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If we had a NT

No one is praising Antonio Johnson, we all wish we had Raji or Suh, but we don’t. Johnson was our best DT in 2009 so it didn’t make sense for him to get benched last year, and even coming off the bench, he was better than Foster, Muir & Moala.

It would be harder for Robert Mathis to develop into a ILB than Mario Williams developing into an OLB. Mathis has been playing DE since 2003 and he’s most effective rushing from out wide. Actually I think about 80% of pressures that Mathis gets is from the outside while Freeney likes to go inside with his signature spin move or just a bullrush. If Colts do go 3-4, Mathis would be well off playing OLB, specifically on the left side since Freeney is a boss coming from the right. Doesn’t make sense for Mathis to go inside.

Gary Brackett receives too much praise? From who? Brackett is a good MIKE LB and he’s been a great part of the Colts defence, he’s the only one on the Colts D that have charisma and energy and he can make a big play once in a while, like the INT, not to mention that he did tip the TD pass to Andre Johnson, whom most other WR wouldn’t catch. I think Brackett plays well enough for his contract right now, but he doesn’t deserve his contract 2 years from now.

I’d much rather have Conner & Mathis as OLBs and Angerer & Brackett as ILBs. Though I can’t see any blitzing from Bethea or Bullitt. Bethea doesn’t have Polamalu’s speed and I just can’t remember seeing either of them blitz. If we still had Bob Sanders, then sure, send some safety blitz.

But who would play at LDE? Jamaal Anderson? Jerry Hughes? I don’t think so.

by KBUnitz on Sep 13, 2011 7:59 PM EDT reply actions  

KBUnitz

like I said my man Gary Brackett is OK at covering the pass. But I have been a season ticket holder for every year Brackett has been a Colt and he gets eaten alive by whoever is blocking him. A stubby fat looking dude from Rutgers is not who I want as my MLB. I want a beast who can shed blockers.

by Augustus Patron on Sep 13, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that's fine

But we can’t get what we always want. I would love to have a back like Ray Rice or a CB like Asomugha hell even Cromartie would be great. I’d love a DT like Raji, but the matter of the fact is that Brackett is the best Colts can do, and in my mind, it’s been pretty good so far. Sure, bring AJ Hawk in or Ray Lewis, but that’s just dreaming. I would much rather focus on our secondary and face that fact that neither Powers, Tryon, or Lacey is playing up to standards and that Bethea had a weak game against Houston.

by KBUnitz on Sep 13, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

How about drafting Rey Maualuga instead of Donald Brown in 2009? It can be done my man. He is def. not the best we can do.

by Augustus Patron on Sep 14, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

NO!

The Colts don’t have the type of players needed to successfully run a 3-4, especially at linebacker and D-line. It’d be a moronic conversion which would do more harm than good in the long run.

by TrueBlue87 on Sep 13, 2011 8:24 PM EDT reply actions  

No what would be moronic is to have the same defensive problems for 10 years. But what can you expect when you retain the same personnel every year regardless of performance and keep the same same pussy ass scheme on defensive.

by Augustus Patron on Sep 13, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Tampa-2 is reliable. It may not be flashy like some Rex Ryan scheme, but it limits the big play. In the modern NFL, the way to win is to limit an opponent to field goals because the rules are tilted toward the offense. When the Colts build a lead and force the opponent to pass, which happens when Peyton is under center, the Tampa 2 is formidable.

by TrueBlue87 on Sep 14, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry to burst your bubble

but our personnel doesn’t translate to a 3-4. A typical 3-4 DE is around 300 lbs. Freeney is not 300lbs, and would therefor be moved to OLB. And while we’re on OLB, why do you have Brackett/Angerer as the OLBs, and Mathis/Conner as the MLBs? I’m going to assume you just mixed them up. We don’t have a NT, as Nevis would be flexed out to the DE. Moala would join him. Also, you wouldn’t have Bethea “blitzing like Troy”, as Polamalu and Bethea don’t play the same positions. The SS in on our team is Bullett.

"Cat in the wall, eh? Ok, now you're talking my language. I know this game."
-Charlie

by Addai Another Aday on Sep 13, 2011 8:39 PM EDT reply actions  

No

no, no, no, no, no, and no.

Simply will not happen. We don’t have the skill players, the size, the technique, or anything. We are a fully molded 4-3

by ZoSo0789 on Sep 13, 2011 8:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Of Course

The Colts can make the switch. The only thing really missing is a BIG DT in the middle. Coaching staff is nowhere creative enough to make this happen. I would put a look like this out there every once in a while just to give offenses a different look:

DE-Anderson
DT-Nevis/Johnson/ or a wide body FA pickup
DE-Brayton
OLB-Freeney
MLB-Angerer
MLB-Wheeler
OLB-Mathis
CB-Kevin Thomas
CB-Powers
SS-Bulitt
FS-Bethea

by Dito29 on Sep 13, 2011 8:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I like it

I like where your head is at with Kevin Thomas. He seems better suited for the 3-4 than Lacey b/c of his man coverage skills. And you could throw Moala out there at DE too. The wide body free agent could be Pat Williams.

by Augustus Patron on Sep 13, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

freeney and mathis have never been asked to cover a TE or RB out of the backfield

let alone a slot receiver
This is a recipe for disaster.
Definitely a not the time to switch horses in the middle of the stream.
It would effectively nullify the 2 best assets the defense has (these 2 pass-rushers)

Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy

by zherebyonki on Sep 14, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Agree

This spells disaster. Tom Brady and Gronkowski would tear Freeney and Mathis up.

by KBUnitz on Sep 14, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't make myself clear

Yes Addai another Day I did mean to say Conner/Mathis at OLBs. And it doesn’t matter what position a player is listed as on a depth chart. On the zone blitz I was referring to one safety blitzes and the other covers the secondary. I would prefer to have Bethea blitz over Bullitt (btw its Bullitt you condescending wise ass). You are right though about Freeney being better suited at linebacker. It would make more sense to run the 3-4 if we still had Harris. Harris is better than Foster but Foster is well liked in the locker room so thats why he was kept. I didn’t post this b/c I thought the 3-4 would work. Just exploring the possibility of anything different. If we stay in the 4-3 we need to start calling more blitzes and pressing receivers at the line of scrimmage during those blitzes.

by Augustus Patron on Sep 13, 2011 9:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Sorry, big Steve McQueen fan.

Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.

"Cat in the wall, eh? Ok, now you're talking my language. I know this game."
-Charlie

by Addai Another Aday on Sep 13, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong, though.

I’d actually prefer a 3-4 defense. But it take time and the correct personnel, neither of which we have.

"Cat in the wall, eh? Ok, now you're talking my language. I know this game."
-Charlie

by Addai Another Aday on Sep 13, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kind of ironic FanPost proposal

as Pats are changing to a 4-3.

"Peyton Manning came to LA and didn't even call me"

by PV Mike on Sep 13, 2011 9:38 PM EDT reply actions  

More because they didn't have the pass rushers on the outside.

Not a problem with Indy.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by ISN on Sep 14, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

,,,,,and maybe peyton could

become a running quarterback when he returns…..

by BLOODontheTRACKS on Sep 13, 2011 11:11 PM EDT reply actions  

lol

if he does come back this year, (highly unlikely) and our line doesn’t improve, he would be anyways. They turned Collins in to one in game 1.

I obstain from sex during the season just so I can have Blue & White Balls. That's what I call dedication....Did I mention I'm not right? PSN: HALF--DEAD

by Half Dead on Sep 15, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we should try the 3-4 defense on a few plays

but not officially switch to it, just to fool the opposing offense. I was thinking of maybe having three DTs (Foster, Moala, and Nevis) line up the LOS with Wheeler blitzing from the SAM LB position.

Colts fan since Tony Dungy's 48th Birthday.

Free will is an illusion, but pragmatically, the illusion of self (ego), choice, freedom, consciousness, are all necessary for the game or struggle to move. No struggle, no universe.

Get well soon, Peyton Manning

by ColtsFan504 on Sep 14, 2011 12:43 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

We should do both

at the same time. We’d then have 18 people on the field. That way Jerry Hughes would actually be active!

I assume he likes to ride the bike while not playing on the sideline.

by ActionOxford on Sep 14, 2011 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

No.

The complaint now is that the front 7 is too small. What do you think would happen in a 3-4?

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by ISN on Sep 14, 2011 1:38 AM EDT reply actions  

exactly

Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy

by zherebyonki on Sep 14, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

You realize...

That Defensive LIneman are generally much bigger in a 3-4 defense compared to a 4-3 defense? I don’t know what the height & weight measurements would tell you, but most 3-4 DLines rely on 3 run-stopping lineman, while 4-3 defensive lines have a few pass-rushers sprinkled in.

Our team is a perfect example. We have 50% of our defensive line offering absolutely nothing against stopping the run. If we transitioned to a 3-4, Freeney and/or Mathis would become OLB’s. We’d have to draft a run-stopping NT (think B.J. Raji or Vince Wilfork), and we’d slid Drake Nevis and Fili Moala to DE. That means we’d line up Freeney, Mathis, Nevis, Moala, and a run-stuff DT on our front.

You don’t get smaller going from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

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by kmbryant09 on Sep 14, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure if this needed to be a reply to my comment,

Seeing as the Pats have almost always run a “big” 3-4 scheme under Belichick.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by ISN on Sep 14, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

In all honestly - It's not that far-fetched.

The problem is Freeney. He’s too small to play DE in a 3-4 front, and not fast enough to play OLB. Also, we don’t have a true NT to plug the middle. A. Johnson, Nevis, and Moala all struggle to plug gaps in a 4-3, there’s no way they’d be any more effective in a 3-4 at NT. But here are some intriguing thoughts:

-Robert Mathis fits the bill as an elite 3-4 DE. I know the transition would be tough, but he’s got adequate size, and enough speed/quickness not only to rush the passer, but to drop back occasionally into coverage.
-Philip Wheeler was VERY impressive standing up in the preseason. Again, very limited work, but he too could fit as a 3-4 OLB opposite Mathis.
-Jerry Hughes cannot play in a 4-3 defense. Period. Apparently, like Wheeler, Hughes was very impressive when standing up in the offseason, and playing a 3-4 DE would allow him play standing up.
-I think Drake Nevis and Fili Moala would be great fits for DE in a 3-4 front. Again, we’d still need a big DT (Wilfork, BJ Raji) in the middle, but we’d need big defensive ends to hold containment and stop the run. Also, Nevis has already shown a rare ability to rush the passer for a DT (or 3-4 DE). I believe Moala played some 3-4 DE at USC in college, so he’d have a very easy transition.
-Angerer would be a great ILB. I’m not sure about Brackett since he’s making way too much $$ and can’t stay healthy.
-It appears we’ll have a high draft selection this year. We could easily get our hands on an elite DT prospect (who usually pay early returns), and a ball-hawk MLB to pair with Angerer.

I doubt it will ever happen, but if/when it does – it will sure have some growing pains. But at the very least, it will mix things up. Any high school team could move the football against our current defense because 1. We suck. 2. We are predictable – we’ve ran the same defense for 8 years. Not only is the Tampa-2 out-dated, but we don’t have the coaches or personnel to execute it. So while a transition to a 3-4 would bring a ton of question marks, I’d be all for it at least for the sake of trying something different.

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by kmbryant09 on Sep 14, 2011 10:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Meant Mathis as an OLB**

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by kmbryant09 on Sep 14, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry

But I just don’t see Brackett being all that good. I think he is average at best. Falls off of a lot of tackles and gets blown up a lot.

by Dito29 on Sep 14, 2011 10:58 AM EDT reply actions  

yes, he's not a big MLB, not the plugger you expect in a 3-4 MLB. Definitley a 4-3 MLB

Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it's important. -- Eugene J. McCarthy

by zherebyonki on Sep 14, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

No linebackers are good

without the line freeing them up to make plays. Whatever defense you run, the D-line’s job is the same as the O-line’s job—protect the guys in the backfield—defensive or offensive.

Brackett’s job is to read and react. He’s going to have a hard time doing that when the D-line is collapsing back on him. It all starts up front, on either side of the ball. If your pawns can’t keep their integrity, the nasty bishops and knights slip through and checkmate your ass.

Maybe we can pool our money and donate a blocking sled to the Colts.

by wcwills on Sep 14, 2011 11:50 AM EDT reply actions  

It will not happen, but I love the idea. they could run a 1gap 3-4 like USC did.

OLB – Mathis and Freeny would be awesome they have size, speed and agility to play LB. and both would run their sack total way up, with the O-line not know who is comming in
ILB – Angerrer could do it, bracket could do it and Wheeler did his senior in college
NT – don’t have one, A Johnson is not able to handle NT, would need to find one.
DE – have one, Moala, but he would suck at DE as much as he sucks at UT now.
DE2 don’t have one, Neevis is too small, maybe Ricardo Mathews
Shut down CB – don’t have any
Saftey’s would be okay

Just don’t have the personel to do it, would have loved to have seen Wade Phillips here and doing what he did for the Texans this year.

Defense is more important than breathing.

by BetterD on Sep 14, 2011 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

NO!

Plan and simple. This would mean a complete overhaul of the defensive roster. The point of a 3-4 defense is to confuse your opponents O-line and QB on were your extra pass rusher is coming from. The COLTS! do not have this problem at all. The opponents O-Line know exactly were the pass rush is coming from but yet Freeney and Mathis still pressure the QB switching to a 3-4 would not fix the problem with the defense were our NT does not effectively control his gap or the LB’s problem of overreacting to the play action pass and not controlling their gap assignments on rushing plays. We have seen this defense when they are on point! Even undersized when the defense plays to their potential MJD, Foster, and Chris Johnson can not run on this team. That being said it is the job of the coaching staff and the players to play within the system and execute it correctly and fast. This pains me to no end watching a game like last week, considering we have seen pretty much the same group of people play like they are paid to do and when they do this having multiple defenders swarm to the ball on rushing plays and staying in their zones during passing plays it takes almost perfect execution from the opposing offensive 11 to have a positive play. The issue is not this is a 4-3 base team. The issue is the 11 on the field are not motivated to step up and play like professionals. The blame on this is to be placed on the whole organization from front office, coaches, and players. This is the what whole defense that needs to do all 11 to be successful. If all 11 on the field are properly executing their assignments you will never see a game like what happened on Sunday.

by dave1251 on Sep 14, 2011 3:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Come on folks

For those of you that says it can’t happen you are being just as close minded as the coaching staff. It is worth running for 3-4 plays out of a game, just to give a different look. Maybe throw it in there for a critical third down. As it stands now, the base D can’t stop anybody!!!! If I remember correctly in the Monday night game, the Pats had a DB playing defensive end for at least an entire series. A little bit of imagination wouldn’t hurt this team at all!!!

by Dito29 on Sep 14, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Dont you realize?

On our blitzing scheme’s we use a lot of 3-4 concepts such as odd spacing and man coverage from our DB’s, LB blitz’s, ect; scheme is not a issue and giving a 3-4 look will not confuse anyone if not played correctly ask the Fins how effective their 3-4 base defense did against Brady. It does not matter what play is called if your players do not execute it properly. Using a 3-4 is not the answer. This is the worst part is the defense simple? Yes. Does it matter how simple or complicated it is if your players can not properly execute? No. We could have Dick Lebeau as our D-coordinator and it would not matter if the defense is so sorry they can not properly play a Tampa-2. Let the COLTS focus on playing the base defense effectively before anyone worries about any blitz packages.

by dave1251 on Sep 14, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't really need to switch to a 3-4 to stop the run better

Watch the spacing between the lineman on the Colts defense…it is WAY more spaced apart than other teams. I think simply moving the D linemen closer together to bunch up the middle of the line on 1st and 2nd downs would instantly help reduce large running lanes and allow the LBs to avoid some blocks and make more tackles.

BTW, I have been watching Conner a lot this season and he gets himself out of position faster than anyone else on the team. Brackett catches a lot of shit, but at least he is in the right place to make a play. If the D line could do a little better job eating blockers, Bracket could do his job.

I don’t think the Colts need to be world beaters on D, but all I am asking for is an average D, like maybe something similar to how the Giants run their defense.

I don't always drink beer....but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

by AceOfSpades on Sep 14, 2011 8:23 PM EDT reply actions  

The Colts seriously could not switch to a 3-4

at least for this season. No, no, no, we do not have the personnel to make it work.

if “getting bigger” along the line is your biggest concern, I’d suggest considering some forms of a 5-2 look. Freeney and Mathis are ill-suited to ever be OLBs, but in a 5-2 you’re going to have the two DEs rushing the passer anyway. Moala/Johnson/Nevis wouldn’t be a terrible interior for run-stopping.

That said, my concern is not only in LEARNING such looks, but in the fact that I’m not completely sure that we’re even close to strong enough against the pass to risk eviscerating our secondary by consistently bringing five rushers. We don’t have lock-down corners by any stretch of the imagination, and I feel like the LBs have a lot to prove in coverage as well. It might not be worth it either way.

by hahasound on Sep 14, 2011 10:33 PM EDT reply actions  

What you guys

are failing to realize is that the Colts don’t have straight up ball players. Take corey liguet for instance, he can play in a 4-3, 3-4, 2-5—whatever.. Same can not be said about Colts players. They are too busy drafting “system” players. Like I said before, they need to draft Good to Great players and let them play, they will make the system. Makes no sense to pass on Adrian Peterson because Addai fits the “system” better. That philosophy is limiting and is coming back to bite in the but now because the lack of talent is being exposed.

by Dito29 on Sep 17, 2011 10:57 AM EDT reply actions  

shame on everyone

that didnt just say this is a preposterous idea and leave it at that

by omahacolt on Sep 17, 2011 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

No one is saying make wholesale changes

Just saying show a different look every once in a while. Sure can’t hurt any!!!!

by Dito29 on Sep 17, 2011 8:37 PM EDT reply actions  

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