The Devil's Take - Beyond 2 and 14....
Welcome to the first official Devil's Take in quite some time. With Manning out for the season, I personally knew that this would be a waste of time trying to debate/comment on most of these games. Thus, I took it upon myself to just try and make the best of it. I'm sure many of us did, some succeeding while others failed miserably.
As BBS reported during last year, Manning's neck injury was in fact real. How the league never moved against the Colts for failure to list the injury, is amazing to me. The best guess I can come up with is simply that since it was "pain" and not necessarily a proven injury, it was omitted. As the season is now behind us, you have all seen the wreckage that this neck injury cost. Bill and Chris Polian - Fired. Defensive Coordinator Coyer - Fired. Special Teams Coordinator Rychleski - Fired.
Ultimately, the 2011 season has brought a lot of questions, some new faces, and now the Colts have the #1 pick in the draft. How do the Colts move forward? I've got some thoughts on that...
Peyton Manning - The biggest absolute question of the now and future of the Colts is the health of Peyton Manning. This is the ONLY thing that matters to be honest. With him under center, he's the best QB on the field. Without him, this team has a TON of decisions to make. Brad Well's most recent article seems to believe Manning won't be here as a Colt next season. Well, I got news for you, that simply won't happen. If Manning can play next season, he will be #18 in the Colts blue and white. If he can't, he will retire a Colt. History has already played this game once before for the Colts, with a guy by the name of Johnny Unitas. Trust me when I say this, Irsay wants no part of that. Unitas was considered one of the greatest, and to have Manning eclipse Unitas only to pull the same thing on Manning, would be a blow this franchise cannot afford.
Many of us feel that way as well. I for one cannot imagine seeing Manning in another uniform. It's much like the Favre disaster, I just can't see it. I also don't believe Manning would want that for his legacy either. So much is being made of his injury that not much is being made of his potential recovery. Kelvin Hayden had a very similar procedure done, and he's back and playing well once more. In fact, the only difference I believe is Hayden's I believe was 1-2 vertebrae lower.
Jim Caldwell - I'll be honest, the Colts have blown it. This guy should have been canned the moment the season ended. Why did the Colts blow it? Two words: Jeff Fisher. The guy was the best available coach in recent memory, and would have been a better pickup for this franchise than even Tony Dungy was. Now, Caldwell is almost all but guaranteed to return as the head coach for the 2012 season. To be honest, I still have a strong feeling the Colts may cut him loose anyways, as the new GM Grigson may find someone better suited for his tastes.
Possible Coaching Candidates - So let's assume the Colts made the decision to wait on the GM hiring to prevent any potential problems with a new coach hire. Let's also assume that Fisher wasn't interested in the Colts or that the Colts weren't interested in him (both of which are BS and we know it). Caldwell retaining his job would be the simplest decision of course, as it would allow for some continuity into the 2012 season. However, that's essentially setting him up to fail as a lame duck coach. Brian Schottenheimer left the Jets, and he's an offensive minded OC, but he's never been a head coach. He would be ideal to work with Manning as well as possibly whomever the Colts draft at QB. Hue Jackson and Steve Spagnuolo are both also ideal candidates as well. Jackson is an offensive guy with proven work with the Raider/Bengals, and let's be honest, if you can get it done there you can get it done anywhere. Spagnuolo was the mastermind behind the Giants defense that upset the Patriots in the SB. With Manning as your QB, he would be able to focus primarily on retooling this Colts defense.
However, my pick is truly a dark horse decision and one I think would benefit us greatly: Bill Cowher. The true trick here is seeing if he even wants to return to coaching, as I think he would suit the Colts the most. He's more of a defensive minded guy, and his teams always ran a variant of the Cover 2 style defense, which the Colts are built for. You cannot tell me seeing a little of the Black and Gold defense played here wouldn't be a refreshing change to the speed variant that isn't working anymore without a lead. The additional bonus to this hiring would be the guys in the league have respect for Cowher. While it may not lead to anyone signing with us, it might put the thought in several free agent to be's minds.
As you can see, that's a lot to think about, and we haven't even touched the roster for the 2012 Colts. You have guys like Wayne, Mathis, Garcon to name just a few that are unrestricted free agents. You have a defense that is young and unproven to some extent. You have some guys on both sides of the ball coming back off injured reserve. You also have a lot of holes to fill. Now many will say well if we trade Manning we could fill some of those holes. Actually, not only would we lose on that deal, but we'd be trading offensive firepower for defensive power. The fact of the matter is that if Manning isn't our QB next year, the Colts have A LOT of issues to deal with.
With Manning - If Manning is under center, the chances of re-signing guys like Wayne, Garcon, Mathis all becomes much easier. They'll know the Colts are still in a position to win. It also makes the decisions for other free agents who may be willing to take less to play for a proven QB instead of taking large deals to stay with crappy teams.
Without Manning - The cupboard is bare. Wayne and Mathis are for sure gone. Garcon might re-sign here, but it's hard to say. The only surefire offensive weapons the Colts have under contract is Dallas Clark and Austin Collie, both with injury issues. The defense is not capable of playing a full 16 game season from behind all the time. We won't sneak up on anyone. And it doesn't matter if the Colts have Luck under center or Painter.
So what to do then?
Trade the Number 1 Pick - Yes, you read it right. Trade it. Not only do you not draft Luck, but you trade the pick. Why? Because the Colts have too many holes to fill right now without the QB issue. They need WR's, they need CB's, and they most certainly need at least one more DT and Safety. Without Manning, this team will be a 1-15 or possibly a 4-12 team anyways. The teams that are all picking behind the Colts are not looking to draft a QB, at least not necessarily. The Vikings and Rams have both picked QB's in recent drafts, and while Luck would be better possibly than Ponder, the Vikings would then have to move Ponder. The Browns and Redskins are teams looking for a QB, but will they trade what the Colts want for the #1 pick? Ultimately, I think there are teams out there that could provide the Colts with a reasonable trade.
The Colts have a chance to pull the same kind of steal that the Chargers did with Michael Vick. In return on that trade to the Falcons, they got Drew Brees and LaDainian Tomlinson. The Colts however, would most likely get at least 1 first round pick, quite possibly two. The 2012 draft features a couple of quality QB's besides Luck, such as Case Keenum and Kellen Moore. The best QB of the group stayed in school in Matt Barkley. And he would be MY pick if he had come out.
The Colts have a chance here to target a big name defensive player at the DT position if they did that. They could also possibly look at targeting a big name WR, such as Michael Floyd or Justin Blackmon. In either event, the Colts WR position is all free agents or rookies as it stands. The Colts NEED to choose and I'm sorry but the QB position is not as critical right this minute.
Let's also not forget this: Dan Orlovsky played fairly well given the amount of turmoil and crap that was going on. Given a full offseason/spring training camp, I truly do believe that this guy could do as well or even possibly better than any rookie we draft. This is why it's critical for the Colts to target the holes this team has instead of the QB position. He's not the QB of the future for this team, but I honestly do not think the guy could play any worse than a rookie...and certainly he can play 10 times better than Painter.
So where does that leave us? Peyton Manning. He's essentially the domino that determines whether we fall over or the one that keeps us upright.
There are some decisions the Colts need to make about this roster moving forward, and I've touched on a few of the biggest ones. There are however a few more I'd like to discuss.
- Reggie Wayne/Pierre Garcon - Despite the QB issues the Colts faced in 2011 and could face in 2012, at least one of these guys needs to be resigned. I think the Colts would be very smart to resign Garcon as he's the least expensive of the two. He's also highly loyal to us as a team and the guy plays hard all the time. He may drop a ball or two, but I'd rather have him than a guy like Randy Moss.
- Dallas Clark - The emergence of Jacob Tamme and the improvement in Brody Eldridge make Clark expendable. Make a trade similar to what the Chiefs made with the Falcons, and you could see the Colts get a 2nd or 3rd round pick out of it. Possibly a player as well. The fact is that the Colts almost always draft or sign relatively good talent at the TE position.
- Offensive Line - Many of us know there are issues on the offensive line, but the truth is that this offensive line played better than what many of us realize. Highest rushing output in about 5 seasons. Highest yards per carry average since 2004. Despite the inexperience of the line and the shuffling of guys out of position, this line played beyond expectations. Given more time, more practice, and perhaps a slight retooling, we could be in for a much better year running the ball next year.
- Joseph Addai - It's time for the Colts to let him go. He's been unable to stay healthy now for I believe 3 years in a row. The Colts have drafted two RB's in the last 3 years and both have played well in 2011. Donald Brown finally showed ColtsNation that he can be the guy...and Carter showed us he can pound the rock. While Addai is a versatile pass blocking RB, the fact remains the roster spot could be used by a FB/RB. I wont be surprised if the Colts don't cut him, but he is not a starter anymore.
- Gary Brackett - This one is a very slippery slope, because I think Brackett can still play at a starter level. The problem is that both Kavell Conner and Pat Angerer are firmly entrenched as your starters next season. The Colts also have Ernie Sims who they should resign to play as well. I believe the Colts will try and rework his deal but I hope he is still around. Even if he can't start anymore, I truly believe he offers the Colts quality depth and reps in the current defensive scheme.
- Pat Angerer - You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. The fact this guy got no love for the Pro Bowl is a joke. He led the league for most of the year in tackles and despite missing some time, he finished fourth in the NFL.
- Joe Lefeged - The kid looks like a gamer. He had some rough patches, but given what he was thrown into, I like what I see. He's big, has some wheels, and he's capable of mixing it up. Depending on how the Colts approach this draft, he could be a short term, possibly long term answer at safety. Given Bullitt's injuries the last 2 years and his penchant as more of a backup/special teams player, he may be better suited to a rotation type setup.
- Antoine Bethea - Routinely the one guy for the Colts who always plays, always does his job, and you almost never hear about him. Constantly overlooked for flashier guys when it comes to awards and Pro Bowl nods. Just glad to have you on our team man.
Some noteworthy stats:
- The Colts posted only their 3rd losing season since the drafting of Peyton Manning. Of that, two of those years were derailed by significant injuries to offensive weapons (Edge/Manning).
- The Colts rushing attack finished 26th in the league in total rushing. That's their highest finish since the 2007 season. It's also their highest output in total yards rushing (1594) since that same season.
- The Colts would average 4.2 yards per carry on the season, the highest total since 2004.
- The Colts O-Line would only give up 35 sacks on the year finishing 16th on the list. They finished higher than the Lions, Packers, Steelers, Broncos, and 49ers, all playoff teams. 3 of the other remaining 7 playoff teams would finish just above the Colts (Ravens/Texans - 33, Patriots - 32).
- The era of Curtis Painter is over. He's proven not only to the league but the Colts that he cannot be their QB.
- Donald Brown would post the highest RB totals for the Colts this year. Yes, Donald freaking Brown. He finished the season with almost 650 yards, 5 TD's, and a 4.8 ypc.
- Despite the putrid season the Colts endured, the Colts defense would finish #1 in total combined tackles with 1,253.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.
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Thoughts
On Fisher: I think the reason the Colts didn’t go after Fisher is the same reason Fisher’s deal with the Dolphins fell through: organizational structure. Fisher wanted to control the front office and drafts in whatever team he went to. Irsay’s history demonstrates that he likes coaches who coach, owners who own, and GMs who manage. That’s what he looked for and Fisher doesn’t fit the bill.
On the draft (assuming a trade): There really aren’t any standout DTs at the top of the draft. This is a deep corner draft, so using the top 10 pick on a CB when you can get a better fit like Dennard or Minnifield in the 20s doesn’t make sense to me. I’d use the top 10 pick on one of the top receivers, probably Floyd who I like for the Colts system. There are some ok DTs, but I only like Brandon Thompson for the top of the second/end of the first. There are some decent looking-mid round prospects. The safety class is pretty weak as well, and Lefedge may end up being better than anyone coming out except maybe Barron.
Nice response
On Fisher: I still think he was a better choice, but I can see why the Colts would be hesitant to pull that trigger.
On the draft: I was merely pointing out options that the Colts have at the moment, as opposed to picking constantly in the high 20’s. The truth is they need another stout DT and a quality WR….beyond that….even some adequate bodies would help…
I appreciate the response!
by DevilsReject on Jan 16, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
I do agree about needing another DT, but unless Brandon Thompson falls then there really isn’t value in the early rounds. We might see someone come off the board in the middle, but this isn’t a great DT year.
There are some intriguing WR prospects though, ranging from Blackmon and Floyd in the top 10 to Kendall Wright, Dwight Jones and Mohammed Sanu in the top of the second.
hell no
1) not drafting luck is a huge mistake.
2) having anything good to say about lefeged is just nonsensical. that guy is horrible. he has zero football smarts. caldwell was much better and he wasnt good.
3) eldridge can block but how did he improve? he is injured a lot. tamme isnt a threat to make plays. cutting clark doesnt save much money at all. makes no sense
4) kellen moore is a joke. that other qb is a joke. again. you take luck. he is the best player in the draft. we need a qb and he is the best player in the draft. its simple math
5) donald brown did not show that he can be the guy. that didnt happen.
6) ernie simms is horrible. cut that guy yesterday
7) orlovsky could do as well as luck? that is laughable. thanks for that
Go elsewhere troll
1.) Drafting Luck is no sure thing…..and while I freely admit the guy is talented…..so was Leaf….so was Jeff George…so was Matt Leinart. All were guys considered to be among the best at the position. Let me know how that worked out for them. Just because he’s new doesn’t guarantee him anything more than it did those guys.
2.) Lefeged did well, he certainly did better than you could….
3.) Tamme isn’t a threat to make plays? I guess him leading the NFL for half a season near the end of the year means he cant make plays..
4.) Kellen Moore won more games than anyone in recent memory as a QB in an uptempo offense similar to the Colts style. He’s also got a decent arm and better common sense than you.
5.) Donald Brown showed he’s capable of it. Routinely ran hard, and was the Colts best rusher overall for the season. Not to mention his stats were generally the better in the games he played in.
6.) Ernie Sims is a good fit for this defense IF the team sticks with the current look. And he’s cheap. Given a healthy squad, he’s a good reps guy.
7.) No Reggie Wayne, no Garcon, no Mathis, gaping holes in the line, etc…. ANYONE would be bad…..so why waste it on a guy like Luck if you can wait a year and fill holes. Orlovsky knows the system, he’s shown he can play well with the talent this team already has.
by DevilsReject on Jan 17, 2012 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't bother
Omaha just trolls every post. He just posts about how stupid everybody else is while he misspells a bunch of stuff. He also never bothers with those little things called facts and proof. He’s the guy who just yells his opinions really loudly, and he always thinks he won. Save your energy. He and Armycolts25 are just narrow minded and want to screw up the discussions.
by PeytonTheManning on Jan 17, 2012 2:53 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
lol
1) because there have been busts at qb, we should never draft another qb? makes no sense
2) lefeged was trash. how on earth could you possibly say he did well?
3) tamme can catch an 8 yard pass. he isnt close to an elite talent. nobody will fear having to deal with tamme
4) kellen moore was a good college qb. ken dorsey won a lot of games. he wasnt a pro qb. moore isnt a pro qb.
5) brown doesnt run hard. he has zero vision
6) ernie sims isnt a good fit for any defense. there is a reason he has been on 3 teams already
7) qb is the most important position. andrew luck is a great qb prospect. when did orlovsky play well? he was better than painter. that is it. you have to look beyond 1 year. your argument makes zero sense.
how am i a troll? i offer informed opinions. your post was bad. i commented on it
You don't offer where your information comes from.
If you’re so informed, make note of your sources and explain logically, rather than like a five year old in a shouting match.
- on your list is also the same argument people are using against your railing for Luck. Just to note, you realize you contradict yourself all over the place, right?
by AnotherWriter on Jan 17, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Don't bother
I’ve dealt with him before. omahacolt is like Skip Bayless, nonsensicle and incoherent, except Skip makes money for what he does, this guy is just a loser living in momma’s basement.
There's only 1 true friend in life. Jack Daniels.
did you not read my above post
how is that nonsensical? there are some very good points there. you dont like me. thats fine.
even you can admit lefeged is trash
Frankly, I'm in argeement
with Devils Reject on your points. All of them are your guesses and assumptions, because if you actually watched football, you’d quit arguing all of your points and see that there are other opinions than your own that might be correct. And certainly you’d find that the players you bash or argue aren’t good quality athletes are actually much better than you’re giving them credit for in your posts. Furthermore, you apply certain principles of your argument to some and not to others, which proves your inability to see the sense and logic in other points.
by AnotherWriter on Jan 18, 2012 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
Likely?
I definitely agree with most of you post.
First, I agree we should trade #1 pick or Manning (we cannot have both) and since trading the #1 is more likely we should go for that. I could see the Browns move up to the #1 and give up both firsts and a second along with a first next year (projected value was 3 1’s and 2 2’s). The Browns will NOT be good next whether or not they have Luck and that could probably give the Colts a top 10 pick. Which will put us in the position to draft Jones or Barkely (prob Jones) next year. This way we can fill holes and draft the QB of the future who can sit behind Peyton for 1-2 years.
2) You say that Brown can be the guy. I unfortunately just don’t see it. I think that Brown is a bust who had a good season (compared to what he has done so far) this year because we could not throw the ball (w/ Painter) and therefore we needed to run it more. I think the Colts should draft LaMichael James in the 3rd if available – he could be the answer there.
All in all great post.
It was
I think that we should trade the #1, and it is not as if there is never going to be another good Qb prospect either. The hype around Luck just makes his value go up and the Colts should cash in. I do think that Luck will be a good Qb, but we don’t need him right now (Peyton). With the Brown pick (if we get it) we can draft Barkely or Jones. This way the Colts become a tremendously better team.
I also cannot comment on Lefeged since I never really payed attention to his play. The only thing I disagreed about was Brown. Sims is an okay Lb, I would draft another one some time in the future but Sims is not bad.
by indycolts21 on Jan 17, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
With Brown
I think you have to approach it as a glass half full item. In his first two seasons, the Colts couldn’t run the ball regardless of who it was, because their O-Line production stunk. It was pass blocking only.
It’s no coincidence in both seasons the Colts failed to crack 1300 yards rushing, and finished virtually dead last in yards per game.
This season, with no Manning and an emphasis on actually, you know, getting some offensive linemen in the draft, the Colts produce the best yards per carry average in about 9 years….and their second best total in the last 6 years. Brown would have the best showing of all the Colts backs. More importantly, teams were stacking the box all season at that. They knew the Colts couldn’t throw the ball anywhere near what they could with Manning.
I think Brown has the potential, and I think he can be a starting back for us. Think Darren Sproles…only early years…before he got great..
by DevilsReject on Jan 17, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
Point Taken
I do agree that you have to look as half-full in this situation. But there are some points you make I want to point out. For D. Brown and Co (RBs) to top the previous Colt’s rushing games is not really a big achievement.
You also say he is the best we have right now, but why not draft LaMichael, he can run and catch out of the backfield. This would fit what the Colts look for in a Rb and he wouldn’t cost a high draft pick either.
Not a real need however
The Colts have 3 RB’s under contract, Carter and Addai both freshly signed just last year. Add to the other various holes this team has without Manning – losing most likely Wayne/Garcon/Mathis, etc….
Needs overcome want…..and I would LOVE to see what James could do in the pros….
by DevilsReject on Jan 17, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Also
It usually takes Colts players 2-3 seasons to really grasp the offense. I saw him make a few good cuts, and he hit the right hole more often than not. He really benefitted from having a FB. I think that could be something that is carried over when peyton returns. I think we all saw the possibility of a nice committee approach. None of them are going to be the next Arian Foster, but Brown and Carter could definitely be a nice 1-2 punch. I just don’t feel like using any draft pick at RB is a good idea this season when we have huge holes all over the place. (WR, DT, SS, CB, possibly DE and TE, C, G, and backup QB)
by PeytonTheManning on Jan 18, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LaMicheal James probably won’t amount to much in the NFL. Oregon’s offense doesn’t translate well and he’s a bit too small to be a good back.
I think Brown is the real deal, it just took him a few years to get it together. It happens sometimes. I project a backfield next year of Brown-Addai-Carter or Brown-Carter-Evans.
They said
The same about Turner, Jones-Drew, etc….
I think talent can overcome size, but he’ll need to bulk up a bit….
by DevilsReject on Jan 18, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
Trade it.
I’m all for trading the 1st overall pick. If the pick really is worth what has been reported: 3 first rounders & 2 second rounders, then I’d say trade the pick and stack up for the next few years for Manning to have a few more runs at the Super Bowl with the Colts.
1. But I can’t agree with having Garcon over Randy Moss, at least not in Moss’ prime. Guy is a future HoF.
2. Clark is expendable at this point. Tamme can catch, Eldridge can block and catch, sorta like a young Clark.
3. Addai is expendable too at this point. Brown has shown improvement in every season, gotta take a chance with Brown and Carter and let Addai go.
4. Brackett needs to go. He costs way too much and he can’t ball like he used to, very injury prone too now. With the newest addition of Jerrell Freeman, I think Brackett is expendable too.
5. Angerer tackled well, that’s about it though. I’m sorry, but his coverage isn’t great, and he can’t rush the QB like Suggs or Miller. He doesn’t have the leadership qualities of a Ray Lewis, but I think you can take him over Derrick Johnson.
6. Lefeged….he’s had his good moments, but….Lefeged is pretty much a bonafide scrub. He’s a bench player at best. Don’t get me started at his kick returns either.
7. Talk about Pro Bowl snubs, Bethea got snubbed. I can accept Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu, but Eric Weddle? He had a good season, but SD can do fine without him. Colts without Bethea would be screwed even more.
There's only 1 true friend in life. Jack Daniels.
About Garcon
The guy brings it every game. No breaks, not gonna half ass it on a pattern. Moss did….and still did….and that alone would keep him off my all time NFL team….he wouldnt even make the backup roster.
by DevilsReject on Jan 17, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
I can understand that
The guy was somewhat lazy and had a bad attitude. and he wouldn’t make my all NFL team either, but I still respect him for his accomplishments, Tom Brady threw 50 TDs that season, and half, or 23 to be exact went to him. Moss has incredible talent, bad work ethic though. But between him and Garcon, I’ll take Moss in a heartbeat, but is it was Moss and Wayne, I’d much rather have a Reggie Wayne than a Randy Moss.
There's only 1 true friend in life. Jack Daniels.
omg. where do i start
1) eldridge reminds you of a young clark?
2) brackett saves next to nothing by cutting him. keeping him only makes sense financially and from a talent standpoint. freeman is a cfl player. he will have a hard time making the team
3) angerer is a middle linebacker. suggs and miller arent. who in the world do you even put them in the same conversation. they play different positions and dont have the same skillset. why did you even bring them up. if angerer could rush the passer like them guys he wouldnt be a mlb. my god man.
you guys talk crap about my posts but let posts like this go with no problem? embarrassing
Unlike you
We don’t turn it into trolling.
1.) Nowhere did I say anything about Eldridge reminding me of anything…let alone a young Clark. Get your sh** straight.
2.) We dont save anything by cutting him, but we also gain nothing by cutting him. If the Colts stay in a Cover 2 defense, which for one more year seems likely, you lose by letting him go.
3.) Angerer is a 2nd year guy. Yet, his stats were BETTER than Jerod Mayos….and yet he didnt even get a nod for an alternate on the Pro Bowl. That’s what I’m talking about. The guy shouldnt be a starter, but to not even get a consideration?
by DevilsReject on Jan 17, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions

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