The Colts, Luck, and the Business Side of Football
by deywalka on Jan 5, 2012 7:28 PM EST
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PrintOn the subject of whether or not the Colts should take Luck vs keeping Manning, there sure is no shortage of opinions on which direction the team should go with it's immediate future. I have read a lot of posts from fans of which some of whom feel that anyone who is of the mindset to take Luck is "showing no loyalty to Manning." Although this line of thinking is short sighted, I find it no surprise coming from the Indy faithful who refuse to look to the future if there is no Manning involved in it. I admit that I am a die hard Colts fan. That being said I am not a fanatic who doesn't see or understand the business side of football. When people say things like: "P**s on ...the entire “ready to move on” crowd. Such attitudes demonstrate the pervasive loss of honor, loyalty, class and culture in American society." And "I’m shocked at how many Colts fans are ready to give up on Manning," it shows the limited logic often associated with the thinking process of sports "fanatics." For the record, this is not about "giving up on Manning." This is about the future of the Colts. That future will be determined by a business decision.
The business side of football is often the hardest part of the game for fans to comprehend. People tend to want their teams to make those decisions based on "loyalty" to favorite players. I remember when Jim Harbaugh was QB for the Colts. Even though he gave the organization some solid years at QB that put Indy on the map, can any of you imagine where the Colts would be now if they had chosen to keep him while he was on the downside of his career and pass on Manning? Harbaugh was let go because of a "business" decision to go with a younger, more talented QB who would eventually become a legend. Believe it or not, we are at that very same cross road again now. Any GM with half a brain can realize that keeping Manning for 3 or 4 more years would only be delaying the inevitable: "Him eventually retiring." This in essence would put the team back at square one in needing to look for a future franchise QB. Why do it 4 years down the road when you are in perfect position to do that right now with the best pick in the draft at #1?
Manning is on the downside of his career and the Colts are in prime position to draft a player who by all accounts could very well not only match, but surpass his greatness. For those of you who keep saying: "He hasn't played in the NFL yet so we don't know what he is going to be" guess what? You don't know what the players we'd get for Luck's pick are going to be either. One thing for sure about the draft, after the 1st ten picks its a crap shoot on what you'll end up with. Yeah you can point to Aaron Rodgers all you want. But how many of you knew he would be the Rodgers he is now on opening day of his rookie season? The fact is you don't know.
Aaron Rodgers was picked towards the end of the 1st round for a reason: "He wasn't good enough to be the 1st overall pick in the draft when he came out." He sat behind Favre for 4 years because he wasn't good enough to run the offense as a rookie. Why? He apparently didn't show enough in college to warrant being a top 10 consideration in the draft. Again, a lot of fans out there need to understand the business side of the game and let go of the personal emotional attachments to "favorite players." I can't think of a more perfect example than the year we drafted Edgerrin James. 99.9% of Indy fans wanted the Colts to draft Ricky Williams (Myself included). When the Colts took Edge, Naptown went ballistic. No one had even heard of this guy (myself included). Yet it was this "business decision" that solidified us as a real contender and gave the Colts one of the most potent 1-2 punches in the game on offense. I for one am glad we have an owner in Jim Irsay who has the balls to make the right choices for his team and not allow those choices to be driven by the short-sighted opinions of the fans who follow the team. The NFL has always been a business above all. Everything else plays second fiddle to that reality, and the success and failure of any business will always depend on the choices of the decisions made by the people in charge.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.
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to be fair
maybe I should post the very direct sometimes aggressive comments as well (including a few by you) supporting luck that any other logic besides drafting Luck is “stupid”, “idiotic”, “backwards thinking”, “illogical”, and a few other choice words I choose not to repeat again so its not just one sided my friend.
I think however you made these points in other threads so really didn’t need to start this post since most know your stance and respectit. But hey, when will we get to have fun with the #1pick again so I say post away…
by Straight Out The Burbs on Jan 5, 2012 8:53 PM EST reply actions
another point
if Irsay makes a “business decision” as you mention several time and keeps Manning and does not draft Luck will you have the “balls” (your word) to support him like your telling the rest of us to do?
by Straight Out The Burbs on Jan 5, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
Mr Burbs you can
keep dreaming about your idea of Irsay keeping Manning over Luck. Even if he does make that decision it would be a “bad business decision.” Like I said earlier in my post above: "keeping Manning for 3 or 4 more years would only be delaying the inevitable: “Him eventually retiring.” This in essence would put the team back at square one in needing to look for a future franchise QB. Why do it 4 years down the road when you are in perfect position to do that right now with the best pick in the draft at #1?"
At best the team MIGHT get 3 1st round picks for Luck and that is a big MIGHT. Even so, none of those 3 rookies will have the promise of what Luck brings. A player like Luck comes along only once every 15 years. You don’t “trade” those away. I don’t care how many picks you get. As far as your comment about me having the “balls to support Irsay” I only support decisions that make since. I don’t support stupidity. Now the only question that remains is will you have the balls to wear a Luck jersey if the team chooses him for the future?
This whole Luck vs Manning debate is better than anything on TV...
I have to say regardless of how this turns out this whole debate at least shows the passion of Colts fans which this year could have dulled so at the least good to see fans with fire for the future of the Colts.
When reading back through your post rant and your response you contradict yourself. You say above:
I for one am glad we have an owner in Jim Irsay who has the balls to make the right choices for his team and not allow those choices to be driven by the short-sighted opinions of the fans who follow the team. The NFL has always been a business above all. Everything else plays second fiddle to that reality, and the success and failure of any business will always depend on the choices of the decisions made by the people in charge.
So your final “show us non business savvy fans” argument was we should trust the business decision and experience of the business owner… but then say that ONLY applies if YOU agree with it? So who really is the short sighted fan? How do you know what Irsay is going to do before March 8th? Unless you got secret info, and we’re talking the most powerful magic 8 ball ever concocted, then join the rest of us in off-season purgatory until we have more info to go off of. You already said you were wrong with Edge now you want people to trust 100% that your right this time since you went to what… University of Phoenix and got a major in NFL Management? You have no ideal Luck is a player that comes every 15 years until he actually PLAYS a game in the pros. Your basing this off what… 3 years playing in college?
As a side note…. I stopped wearing another guys jersey after 15. I rather see a woman in one. I will support Luck if chosen but hope you support the team with this same passion if they don’t.
by Straight Out The Burbs on Jan 5, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
"But hey, when will we get to have fun with the #1pick again so I say post away…"
If most know my stance why make this post above at all? If most understood my stance I wouldn’t need to make this post. It’s a response to the multiple comments of people who keep harping on “loyalty to Manning.” Every team has let go of a franchise player who was the face of their franchise before. We are not immune to having to deal with that scenario as well. Get used to the idea. Players get old. When they do they have to be replaced. That’s the reality of life.
i agree
but let us SEE first if Manning is “old” or not healthy. If he is then yes the team should look at their QB options (Luck AND other QB options included) since this is a HUGE decision that has several ramifications. You don’t just make it over a cup of joe and sudoku. That’s really what savvy business owners do. You know… what you posted above.
by Straight Out The Burbs on Jan 5, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
"You don’t just make it over a cup of joe and sudoku."
“That’s really what savvy business owners do. You know… what you posted above.” And “savvy business owners” don’t throw away opportunities to draft a franchise QB when they have the top pick in the draft either, especially when they had to wait 15 years in order to be in position to do so. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to wait another 15 years while going through the likes of another set of Jim Sorgis, Curtis Painters, and Kerry Collins’ in order to fulfill that process.
just stating the obvious… you want everyone to believe in Irsay being a business man who makes the right decisions but ONLY if it makes your case. That’s hypocritical. You should have never used that as the basis of your argument when you just as quickly contradict yourself.
by Straight Out The Burbs on Jan 6, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
No. If you check the opinions of
beat personalities from all of the major sports networks, those who are pro Luck to the Colts out number those who are for “trading him for more draft” picks 4-1. According to your interpretation I guess they are hypocritical as well.
But if Irsay and the GM decide no on Luck
and it turns out to be the right decision, will you be okay with that?
Also, analysts are for picking Luck because they’re hyping him. You’re so set on moving forward without Manning that you can’t even look at the other options. Open your eyes.
by AnotherWriter on Jan 6, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
That's because the other "options" you
speak of are less of a sure thing than he is. You keep asking for proof that Luck is the sure thing yet you have provided no proof that the players you want in his place will be any better. You can’t even name any. GTFOH
I've never argued anyone was a sure thing.
What I’ve said is that you’re looking at getting 5 1st and 2nd rounders for a nubmer 1. That gives you 4 more picks to hit on in the next two drafts. How do odds not make sense to you?
by AnotherWriter on Jan 6, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
you know… this conversation was fun at first but its got boring fast since you keep responding with no solid arguments and just say others are doing it so it must be true argument. so taking a break from this madness until we all have more info to go off of since right now without it this is just a p****ing contest.
by Straight Out The Burbs on Jan 7, 2012 2:56 AM EST up reply actions
Well well well
I hate to be the one to say “I told you so” but it looks like the Colts are going to do EXACTLY what I said they would: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/shutdown-corner/report-colts-already-decided-andrew-luck-215151364.html
Just because you say business a couple times and have cleaned up the argument
doesn’t make it any more valid or arguable an issue. You’re rehashing the same old stuff, over and over. There isn’t anything revolutionary or new about what you say here.
The extra picks give the best option to hit on early round picks. No one is a guarantee, but if you consider the odds, it makes more sense to trade for the windfall of picks.
Wrong again "Writer."
Your idea of taking a chance of unproven rookies who don’t hold the same value as the #1 overall pick is more of a risk than taking a franchise QB with that 1st pick. The players you hope to get are even more unproven than Luck is. BTW I said “business” multiple times because people like you don’t “get it” unless it’s driven into your head that the NFL indeed is just that: “A business.”
I think we get that it is a business, hence why we all pay for tickets, merch, etc.
But what you don’t realize is that you offered no stats, no number analysis, etc. on why this is a good business decision. Simply, its an odds game. The more picks you have to use, the more chance you have to hit those picks. If you miss on this and Luck can’t produce early, you’re relegating this team to a bottom tier team for the next 2-4 years.
Safe is sticking with Manning, if healthy. If he isn’t, I’m fine taking Luck and taking our chances, but there are more factors than your man-love for Luck that need to be considered.
by AnotherWriter on Jan 6, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
OK. Answer this question for me:
Do you wish the Colts would have traded their #1 overall pick the year they drafted Manning for “more picks?” If so, where do you think the organization would have been today? (For a hint, See Detroit prior to this year).
No, I don't...
But we weren’t a winning franchise before. The situation is different. We are in an extremely unique situation as a team with great, winning tradition in the recent past and one bad season. This gives us options, situations that we can look at to possibly get the best value from the pick.
We need to extend the winning, not save the franchise from a possible move because of horrible play and losing records in recent years.
by AnotherWriter on Jan 6, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don't care how "different"
you think the situation is. It doesn’t warrant the need to trade away a player of Luck’s caliber when they only come along once every 15 years. Players like Barry Sanders, PM, John Elway, Cam Newton, Calvin Johnson, and Dan Marino are what you call “special players.” You don’t throw them away. We traded away the rights to Elway and where did that put the franchise?
You're delusional.
Can’t even get you to agree that the situation is different? WOW. Truthfully, you named good players, but there are others that are on their levels. Andre Johnson is there with Calvin, etc. You’re so narrow minded. You take the number one pick if you need to make a huge jump in the future, if you need to drastically improve. Trading the picks makes sense if you think you have a player who can carry your team and need people around him to make a run. Very different situations.
by AnotherWriter on Jan 6, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
It's no different than when Manning came
into the league. This kid is that special. Point blank.
Just because you don’t care doesn’t mean it isn’t relevant.
by AnotherWriter on Jan 6, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Oh it's supposed to be
“different” because you say so? I don’t think so. You my friend are the one stuck in the delusional purple drink.
Polian said
in his comments that the big problem this season was not having a backup QB who can handle the games this season. More to the point, if you get someone competent, a Matt Flynn, a Cassell, etc. there is an opportunity to win more games. This is the problem. No one has any tolerance or understanding of having a backup because we haven’t in Indy in years. Just because we haven’t bought into having a decent backup who can manage games, doesn’t mean its a bad idea or philosophy.
This is exactly what Irsay and Polian said was the ultimate reason for the firing. It is also the truth. It was shocking that we knew all summer Manning wasn’t healthy and the best we had was Painter. Any GM that seriously thinks a guy that isn’t even fit to play holder on special teams in capable of starting in the NFL probably has been doing it too long.
That said, I thought the whole season was done on purpose until Polian got the AX.
-- Life is to short to take everything serious. Especially sports blogs.
Please stop drinking the "if" juice ok?
If is not “for sure.”
Yea I know it gives you
something else better to do than shoveling snow off your neighbors driveway 69steve (oops I meant 87rides a surf board, or is it jesusninja13???) I can’t keep up all your handles (and really don’t care).
It was me who said:
I’m shocked at how many Colts fans are ready to give up on Manning.
To which you said:
[I]t shows the limited logic often associated with the thinking process of sports “fanatics.” For the record, this is not about “giving up on Manning.” This is about the future of the Colts. That future will be determined by a business decision.
I think it’s your logic that is limited if you fail to consider that the best “business decision” might be to keep Manning. Lots of variables still have to play out. My comment was in reaction to the throngs of Colts fans who are ready to send Manning out to pasture prior to any of these variables being resolved. Am I somewhat driven by loyalty to and appreciation for Manning? You bet. But am I blinded by that loyalty and appreciation? I think not. If Manning is not at or close to 100% by the option deadline, then I get that we have to cut him. If he is unwilling to rework his deal to make some more cap-space, then I think we probably have to seriously consider whether we can afford to keep Manning and still build for the future. But it’s foolish to make that very hard “business decision” prematurely, before either of these big questions are answered. I’m not ready to give up on the possibility to the Manning era is not over.
wippersnapper of course keeping
Manning would be the best “business” decision if it were A) financially possible, and B) Luck was willing to be relegated to the bench behind Manning. Since both of those scenarios are highly unlikely why mention the pipe dream? In all honesty the biggest issue is not whether or not Manning is willing to take a pay cut, but whether Luck is willing to take a back seat. I don’t see it happening based on his response when interviewed on the subject. We all know the Colts won’t take RG3 because there are not enough people who view him as the clear cut top choice as plus we all know Indiana is not ready for a black QB starting for the Colts.
Seriously?
You just equated 1997 Jim Harbaugh with 2010 Peyton Manning. These situations are dissimilar in almost every respect.
womp womp... Deywalka.
deywalka where did you get your business degree..Devrey or community clown college?(lmfao)
First rule of business 101 – "A business is in business to make money – our job is to make sure that business stays in business and continues to make money".
In all respects if Manning is healthy, Manning makes the Colts money. It’s a proven fact. Thats why you hear so many people saying they would not be Colts fans anymore if PM is no longer with the team. Thats why this is even a debate…
What is the difference is currency between a diehard Colts fan, fair-weathered Colts fan or a Peyton Manning only fan.. Nothing. Money is green. All will spent money and that what matters.
If he (PM) left to another team you can imagine that he would be profitable in any market.
Why take such a huge risk with starting Luck? The risk is out weights the benefit.
Only way Luck plays first game is if Manning is unavailable to perform.
It’s like trying to sell coke-a-cola as just “cola”..it’s not the same.
Even if your “cola” taste’s the same or better- you lose half your market with the change.
That called business..
"The risk is out weights the benefit."
Before you come in here with lame, elementary college jokes, go back to preschool and learn how to properly make a real sentence. You kinda need to know how to do those when discussing “business” in any capacity. womp womp…
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