Trade draft pick???
by colts365 on Feb 19, 2012 12:44 AM EST
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PrintI know I know Luck is good but is he worth the value the Colts could get out of the number one pick? I have been wondering lately what if we trade this pick to Cleveland? Say the colts received cleveland's 4th, 22nd, next years number 1 and hayden for luck? I say trade it ASAP! Just think we could get Blackmon and Dont'a Hightower. In the second we could have the chance of getting Ryan Tannehilla. You are probably thinking who would be our starting qb. I say bring in Orton and lets establish a new run first offense. Orton can win. If he isn't the band aid that he usually is then we still have two number one's next year. I think this gamble is worth taking. Look at the qb class of 11" Dalotn, Newton, Locker, and ponder. Coming into the draft it was a horrible Qb draft. Now we look back and say it wasn't that bad. I hope the Colts take the risk and trade the pick and draft a potential starting qb like Tannehilla or hell even Brandon Weeden. What do you guys think is it worth it????
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What do
The Giants, Packers, Saints, Steelers, Colts and Patriots all have in common?
#1.They are the only teams to win a superbowl in the past decade(outside of the Bucs)
#2. The all have franchise quarterbacks.
While it’s true that we wont receive the same amount of value if we take Luck as if we traded the pick the bottom line is, in today’s NFL you will not win with any consistency whatsoever without a very good QB. So while we can fill more holes with 1st rounders it wont matter if the guy who touches the ball on 100% of offensive plays is an idiot.
No Luck isn’t a sure thing, but he’s as close as it gets at the QB position. And I would rather take my chances on winning more superbowls than building a complete team.
Don't forget the 2000 Ravens
They won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer, but it was mostly due to their extremely strong defense.
If you have a solid defense and a somewhat competent QB, it’s possible to win a Super Bowl.
Colts fan since Tony Dungy's 48th Birthday.
Free will is an illusion, but pragmatically, the illusion of self (ego), choice, freedom, consciousness, are all necessary for the game or struggle to move. No struggle, no universe.
Make me your friend, and I get ya back for life.
Make me your enemy, the world ain't big enough for you to hide in
lol, outside the statute of limitations
Besides, I’d say its more likely that Luck turns out to be a great quarterback, than the extra picks transforming our defense into the 2000 Ravens.
The key is not whiffing on first round selections(2007-2010) and then drafting some bona fide starters in the later rounds. I’m hoping that we have a coaching staff that can develop these guys.
by mlc2656 on Feb 19, 2012 5:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Trust me
I don’t think the NFL will ever witness an epic defense like the 2000 Ravens, especially from the Colts.
Colts fan since Tony Dungy's 48th Birthday.
Free will is an illusion, but pragmatically, the illusion of self (ego), choice, freedom, consciousness, are all necessary for the game or struggle to move. No struggle, no universe.
Make me your friend, and I get ya back for life.
Make me your enemy, the world ain't big enough for you to hide in
thank you.
That was my point, while I would love to have one of the two greatest defenses of all time in Indianapolis, I’ll settle for a great QB and a decent defense. And with those two things we can win championships
yep. i agree
he walked right into that one
I'm open to a trade but you make a very good point
I’m not as enamored by Luck as most but you raise a solid point that without a good QB you can’t win. I’m just not convinced you can’t get that QB later in the draft. More and more guys are coming out of college prepared to succeed in the NFL than say 10-15 years ago.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Of the teams listed above, only one has a QB who wasn’t drafted in the 1st round, the Patriots. We all know Brady was drafted in the 6th, how many times since brady has an all time great QB been found in the 6th? Zero.
Bottom line is if we don’t take Luck with the #1, our new GM will probably be our old GM in just a few years.
Actually 2
Brees was a 2nd Round pick
Colts fan since Tony Dungy's 48th Birthday.
Free will is an illusion, but pragmatically, the illusion of self (ego), choice, freedom, consciousness, are all necessary for the game or struggle to move. No struggle, no universe.
Make me your friend, and I get ya back for life.
Make me your enemy, the world ain't big enough for you to hide in
Yeah but..
2nd QB to go in the draft….early 2000s wasn’t the start of the “pass happy” league that we see today. Matter of fact, he was projected to go first round, should have gone first round…but simliar to Rodgers, kept dropping. You’re arguement still doesn’t stand strong b/c you still need a franchise QB to win games and championships. PERIOD.
by BringbackReggie#31 on Feb 20, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
and what arguement is that?
Colts fan since Tony Dungy's 48th Birthday.
Free will is an illusion, but pragmatically, the illusion of self (ego), choice, freedom, consciousness, are all necessary for the game or struggle to move. No struggle, no universe.
Make me your friend, and I get ya back for life.
Make me your enemy, the world ain't big enough for you to hide in
that..
if you don’t draft a franchise QB, you’re not going to win in this league…like you mentioned, “we’ll just build a great defense and win with a competent QB” odds are not in our favor….odds that are in our favor is drafting Luck or for arguements sake..drafting your franchise QB early to build around..that will be you championships…
We can’t trade away Luck and expect to find a QB to be our franchise from here on out or later in the draft. A Tom Brady probably won’t even happen again. You draft a great QB and build around him, that’s why we had the best decade of any NFL team
by BringbackReggie#31 on Feb 20, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
A good offensive line and receiving options
Those are the two things we need. Luck or RGIII would both develop into great QBs in those circumstances.
by PeytonTheManning on Feb 23, 2012 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry
but there is no way Browns would give 3 first round picks, and hayden for Luck.
Im sure they would be content with moving up to number 2 for RG3 by giving their 22 away and maybe a third round pick while keeping next years first rounder and hayden.
I THINK THE BROWNS
would give 3 number one picks for Luck. He is the highest rated QB to come out in decades and would give the Browns a chance to compete every year. Fortunately, the Colt’s know this too and won’t trade the pick.
It can happen
but everyone will flame this post and make it seem like its humanly impossible to trade the #1 pick. If someone makes Irsay and Grigson an offer they can’t refuse, I can see it happening even though I wouldn’t hold my breath for it.
Colts fan since Tony Dungy's 48th Birthday.
Free will is an illusion, but pragmatically, the illusion of self (ego), choice, freedom, consciousness, are all necessary for the game or struggle to move. No struggle, no universe.
Make me your friend, and I get ya back for life.
Make me your enemy, the world ain't big enough for you to hide in
by ColtsFan504 on Feb 19, 2012 5:13 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
the bigger question would be
why in the hell would you want to pass on a franchise qb
Exactly
Every other team is willing to give away the farm for Luck, yet here we have Luck sitting in our lap and fans want to trade him away? We have him and don’t have to give up any picks to get him. We will still suck next year, but we’ll have 2 years of high draft picks to get better. Trade away our top pick next year for more picks, just not this year.
I completely agree
I don’t see it happening but I don’t think it would be the stupidest thing in the world. Haden + 3 1st rounders is crazy. If that actually was the offer That would be very hard to turn down. Especially since you have the 4 and could possibly grab RG3 there.
That said, if the Browns can get RG3 at the 4 they likely wouldn’t bother moving their trade.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
GRIFFEN
will almost definitely go 2nd. Either Cleveland moves up or someone else does. If you trade the pick who plays QB? Tannehill or Weedon are projects and aren’t close to Luck in ability. Free agents like Orton are nothing special. If Luck is a risk, which he he really isn’t, then so are all the draft picks the Colt’s get in the trade.
Taking Luck is the safest and smartest way to go.
The only way you don't take Luck is if something changes and they find a way to keep Peyton around
Highly highly unlikely but until the fat lady has sung you never know what could change.
So that said yes I agree the Colts likely take Luck however if they find a way to bring back Manning you have to entertain the idea of getting a load for Luck.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
AND BET THE
fate of the franchise on a 36 year old weak armed quarterback with 4 neck surgeries who makes a boatload of money? The franchise needs to be run with the head and not the heart. The Colt’s have to move on with Luck.
The quarterback you are speaking of
a 36 year old weak armed quarterback with 4 neck surgeries who makes a boatload of money?
That same QB is also a Super Bowl MVP, 4-time NFL MVP (only player in history to have this feat) and ranks in the TOP 5 for every statistical category for a QB and first ballot Hall of Fame.
Luck, RGIII, and all the other prospects at QB are still unproven at the moment, any one of them can bust out and shine or can flat out be a bust.
"I stepped on bullet-shells and crossed over dead bodies -Soulja Slim
by BlueHorseShoe on Feb 22, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
walter payton
was the best running back i have ever seen. doesnt mean he will help the colts next year
Andrew Luck is the best QB prospect in this years draft
Doesn’t mean he will help the Colts this season.
"I stepped on bullet-shells and crossed over dead bodies -Soulja Slim
by BlueHorseShoe on Feb 24, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
he will help them more
than anyone else they could draft. and probably more than any 2 players they would draft
I agree also
Right now, the only difference I see between Luck and RG3 is that Luck is rated one spot higher than RGIII in terms of QB prospects, but they’re both considered franchise QBs nonetheless
I think trading the #1 Overall selection for Cleveland’s 4th and 22nd Overall and numerous other picks and selecting RG3 with the 4th Overall pick is better than just selecting Luck and getting no additional picks to really help rebuild the team.
But then again I guess that would be a stupid idea cause black QBs can’t be franchise ones and make it to the Super Bowl.
"I stepped on bullet-shells and crossed over dead bodies -Soulja Slim
by BlueHorseShoe on Feb 22, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
SO WHO
starts at QB if you trade out of the pick?
For you to ask me that
I can tell you didn’t put in much comprehension when you read my comment.
"I stepped on bullet-shells and crossed over dead bodies -Soulja Slim
by BlueHorseShoe on Feb 23, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
GRIFFEN
will be gone by the time the Colts pick at #4. Are you proposing that they then trade up to #2 to get him? Since Washington and Miami will also be interested in Griffen the Colts will be in a bidding war for that pick. The Colts would have to give up many of the picks they received in trading out of the number one pick just to move up to number 2 and then there is no guarantee that they aren’t outbid.
The Colts know all this. That is why they will take the drafts best prospect at number 1.
It depends if the Rams and/or Vikings trade their picks
St.Louis and Minnesota don’t need a QB, so unless they trade thier pick (which is quite unlikely) They will draft a player based on what they need most.
I can see the Rams taking OT Matt Kalil or WR Justin Blackmon if they don’t trade the pick.
I can see the Vikings also taking one of the two mentioned players above, or they can take CB Morris Claiborne.
The Browns are the only team with decent trade bait, Redskins and Dolphins FO would have to give up the majority of the draft selections along with players to move up at #2, if they don’t do so, then St. Louis and Minnesota keeps their picks.
"I stepped on bullet-shells and crossed over dead bodies -Soulja Slim
by BlueHorseShoe on Feb 24, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
IT'S A HUGE RISK
St. Louis is actively looking to move down since they have a QB and need lots of help. Cleveland, Miami, Washington and Seattle could be in play for RGIII. RGIII is probably going at #2. It’s almost a sure thing. If the Colt’s trade out to #4 they probably won’t get him. Why take the risk when the better more highly regarded prospect, at a position of need and a QB, is sitting there?
Why hasn't anybody posted
Asking what fans on this board would need to trade away the pick? Personally, I would take the 3 first rounders and 2 second rounders that are being rumored as long as Peyton will sign a new contract.
If he isn’t willing to sign a new deal, then it would take those picks plus a starter at a spot where we need help (NT, SS, WR, Interior lineman).
by PeytonTheManning on Feb 23, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
What about trading down in the second round if a guy the Colts can probably get a bit later in the round is still there (and assuming that all the guys the Colts really want aren’t there).
Colts need to think about picking up extra picks.
I don’t know 2nd round value, but could trading to mid 2nd get you a 3rd as well?
Or maybe trading down just a few spots for an additional 4.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
since the nfl splits up rd 1 and 2
(they are on different days), teams take a big step back to see what they want for day 2. Since Colts are picking #2 on day 2, they will get a ton of offers from other teams wanting “their guy”. Wish Al Davis were still alive, but, I am sure there are other idiots out there that will give up too much (Jerry Jones for example).
Its Joe HADEN
And thats the idea I’ve proposed on this site for the last 4 months….So much so, that I actually tired myself on the idea, came to my senses, and realized there is no LOGICAL choice but to pick Luck.
Actually I had us getting the Browns 2 1st rounders, Haden and Phil Taylor…And that is very feasible for those doubting we can get 3 1st rds out of Luck. If Cleveland HAD 3 first rounders, they would give it all up for Luck.
by Lankford 4 President on Feb 19, 2012 7:14 PM EST reply actions
Love the idea
but I think trading to Miami would be a better trade, They are desperate for a Once in a Lifetime prospect. Get there #9 overall this year there 2nd and 1 next year and Pouncy! Use the #9 on one of the many quality OL this year. With these 2 additions the line will have talent and depth. Use one of the seconds to get 1 of the other VERY good(Not once in a lifetime) QB’s. Have insurance with the 2 #1’s next year to add another VERY good QB. Build a TEAM without relying on 1 person to carry them. Luck MAY turn out to be great. May turn out to be Leaf. If he turns into the next Manning, What happens in 2-4 years? CAP hell on 1 position again! Several Championship caliber teams have built around QB’s that were not Once in a lifetime prospects. It takes vision from people who are skilled at finding great talent nobody else see’s. I hope the COLTS new front office can see them. If they take Luck, then Good LUCK to them. I hope they stay open minded and listen to offers that will surely be out there.
by shoospa on Feb 20, 2012 12:04 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
If you take Luck, and he becomes what most believe he will become, he is an instant 8-10 win machine. If you pass on luck and hope you don’t bust the picks you do take and then you have a decent offensive line, that guess what; you’ll still have to pay, and a QB or in the scenario you laid out a couple QB’s who are decent surrounded by a decent team and then you get an instant 8-10 win team. So what’s the difference?
With a truly great QB you will win games no matter the surrounding cast. Manning was playing at a level of greatness for the majority of the past decade, and peaked somewhere around 2009. What we saw with those Colts teams was that one QB regardless of his support can challenge for a title.
I’m not suggesting that Luck can or will do the same, what I am saying is that IF he can be even in the same universe with manning, and IF we can give him a slightly better supporting cast, one where we draft smart, sign smart extensions, make good moves in free agency we WILL win superbowls.
This isn’t a league based on OLinemen and Cornerbacks, there’s a reason QB’s make the most money, if they’re great they can win almost all by themselves.
by cq.noble on Feb 20, 2012 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
missed this line
Several Championship caliber teams have built around QB’s that were not Once in a lifetime prospects
Luck isn’t once in a lifetime, he’s simply the best prospect in recent memory. However if you could provide me with a list of actual championship winners in the past 15 years without a very good QB that would be great…
Oh fine… I’ll do the work for you
2001 Ravens
2003 Bucs
And as it has been stated finding a “very” good QB in later rounds is almost as difficult as winning the powerball, why pass on Luck?
by cq.noble on Feb 20, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
on second thought...
you could expand my original “15 years” and expand it to 30 years.
The list of teams to win a Superbowl without a very good QB are:
85-86 Bears (greatest defense of all time)
87-88 Redskins
91-92 Redskins
00-01 Ravens (2nd greatest defense of all time)
02-03 Bucs
So for the last 30 years 25 superbowls have been won by great QB’s.
And as mentioned, Luck grades out to be great, the others do not… why risk it?
by cq.noble on Feb 20, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The better list
The better list in this situation would be how many of the QBs in the last 10-15 years were the top QB prospect. You are comparing them after they landed on their teams and developed.
Off the top of my head, I know that Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Brady, and Warner were not the top QB prospects in their drafts. The Mannings each were.
by PeytonTheManning on Feb 23, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
you are talking to shoospa
the kid has no idea how to build a football team and for some reason thinks that good qb’s arent needed in the nfl today
saying he is delusional is kind
Took you long enough
what happened? Did you have to stay after school because you are failing Calculus? Don’t blame the teacher. It wasn’t his/her fault! LOL that was priceless.
it was a great analogy
next time i will draw a picture with my crayons so you can understand
Where
in my post did I say without a very good QB? I said Once in a lifetime. How many championship winners had overall #1’s? 4 in the last 10+ years. Most all as you have proved for me had very good or good QB’s. And what rounds were most of them drafted? You have an opinion of how you would like to see the Colts draft. I have mine. Truth is, we are all just fans and are opinions mean nothing. You are right. Finding talent in later rounds is hard. But if the people in charge of doing that fail. They will also be here on these sites sharing there opinions as fans like us.
NOT COMPLICATED
The best prospect in this draft, and in many previous drafts, is a quarterback. The Colts need a quarterback and are in a position to do draft one without having to give anything up. Thus, the Colts draft Luck.
Draft picks are not 50/50 propositions where some make it and some are busts. The history of other first round QBs has absolutely nothing to do do with Luck’s future success or failure. Luck is well scouted and will develop into a franchise type QB. The Colts, and everyone else in the league know this.
If Luck develops as expected the Colts will be thrilled to pay him franchise money. Meanwhile, he will be a bargain on his rookie contract.
Trading the pick
The only reason why it would make sense to trade the pick at this point is if Manning can be virtually guaranteed to be healthy going forward by the draft. I don’t think it will be possible to come to that conclusion by then so it makes the most sense to draft Luck.
The only scenario I see at this point where the Colts would trade the pick is if they traded down a couple spots and still ended up with RGIII but I don’t see that happening either.
I don't always drink beer....but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
Even if Manning is 100% healthly
No way Irsay trades Luck. He is a business man and sees he has 15 years of future returns with Luck.
what top QB's are coming out next year?
If we did trade out on luck and manning is unable to play or goes down what qb’s are coming out next year? cause you know we will still pick top 5 if manning can’t go.
Matt Barkley – USC, Landry Jones – OU, Tyler Bray (maybe – he’ll be a Jr.) – Tennessee, Tyler Wilson – Arkansas, Aaron Murray – UGA.
I think both Tyler Bray and Aaron Murray will be Juniors, so they may not enter the draft in 2013, but the others will be Seniors. If everyone in this short list ends up in the draft, they’ll all be 1st and 2nd round talent.
I am a veteran of the Internet - I will suffer fools gladly. And then mock them. And then post cat pictures.
by BoilerUp1982 on Feb 20, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Right - none are close in terms of talent and being NFL-ready
I think Luck and RG3 are head and shoulders above anyone coming out next year.
I am a veteran of the Internet - I will suffer fools gladly. And then mock them. And then post cat pictures.
by BoilerUp1982 on Feb 21, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with everyone that says..
draft Luck. Again yeah sure, he’s not garauntteed to be the next Peyton Manning…but the closest thing to it in recent memory. I know all of us have to agree and say we have been spoiled the last 10+ years with the Colts. Great season after great season, so much that we wouldn’t TRADE it for anything….
And that’s why I say there is no way we can let this opportunity get away from us. Sure it’s a gamble..but taking Manning over Leaf was a gamble. And if Luck is the next closest thing to PM, then I will gladly take another DECADE or maybe more of success with Luck as my QB…then sit and watch him do it for someone else, while we struggle to find someone to replace Manning – ala what cq.noble stated. You have to have a fanchise QB or else it’s going to be a long time before we find success again
by BringbackReggie#31 on Feb 20, 2012 2:23 PM EST reply actions
i cant wait
until all these trade luck fools change their minds in a season or two.
People need to understand that trading the pick only made sense if Manning was completely healthy.
He’s not, and unless a miracle happens he won’t be by April.
by James Broschat on Feb 20, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
What does it matter?
The world ends 21DEC anyways….
Bills fan here…My wife is a Colts fan so I keep up with both teams..
My thoughts…You would be stupid and a complete idiot to pass up on Luck or RG3. The problem is that the Colts fan base has been so use to winning that I wonder how many fans will be left after another 3-13 season next year.
I say you guys keep manning and use him as trade bait for more picks. Rumor has it that the Rams are willing to give you their 1st rd pick for Manning…anyone else hear this?
Can you imagine having the first Pick and Second Pick in this years draft. You could get Luck and work on your D. You guys have a lot of potentinal in this draft because you have Manning and can easily keep being good if you draft Luck (Unless he turns out to be a Leaf). It will be interesting come April though…
UNLESS you guys want Fitz and our number ten pick for Luck ;)
Can't really trade Manning
His cap hit would be astronomical for 2 or 3 seasons…
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