Food For Thought - All the DRAFT LUCK FANATICS

by OdnsRvns on Feb 21, 2012 3:55 AM EST

Here is a quick list of the Superbowl winning QB's and where they were drafted. I'm going to take a few cheap shots in the article at the fans, the managers, and some players so i apologize in advance. I'm also going to try to explain in simple English why I think taking luck could be a downfall for the colts organization. Let me say first if the Colts do take luck i am in no way going to be disappointed he has real skills and ability that, no one can deny. So lets go.

WARNER - UNDRAFTED: Alright year 1999 Kurt takes over for an injured Trent Green and leads his team to the show as a backup. This 4 time probowl, 2 time all pro, Superbowl winning SOB went undrafted in 1994. Also on a side note every playoff game he played in when he left the field his team was winning. So humbly I'd say someone let this guy slip through.

JOHNSON - pick 227: Brad Johnson was a career journeyman and got his Superbowl riding a wave of defense and a stellar run game. Their i said it but all in all he wasn't a terrible QB 82.4 career passer rating and the guy throwing to Chris Carter. He took over Trent Dilfer's team a top ten draft pick and took them to the Superbowl.

BRADY - pick 199: I don't really have to go over this as its beat into all our heads. Tom's drafted so low might aswell been undrafted turns out may be the best QB of all time LA DEE FREAKIN DA. But it a great point that this non first rounder has plenty of rings.
BREES - pick 32: Drew had a controversy with the chargers and got off to a late start. Great college career but all the pundits pegged him for his height saying that a 6 foor QB would get swallowed in the NFL by teams d-line. Year after year drew finds a way to get it done and break records. The guy can sling the rock simple as that. Drafted top of the second in the worst QB class in my memory only Vick was before him and he wasnt drafted for his QB skills.

RODGERS - pick 24: Drafted in 05 didn't win a Superbowl until 2010. Some would say he is as good now because he sat for a couple of years behind Farve. I'm not one of those but some might say that.

ROETHLISBERGER - Pick 11: BIG BEN is for me is like Brad Johnson. Won his first Superbowl with Defense and a running game. His first Superbowl was statistically the worst every played by a winning QB. Now Ben has panned out for the steelers but they seem to be on a decline and with cincy on the rise I don't see the big guy making it back to the show but a pair of rings aren't exactly paperweights.

DILFER - Pick 6: Well finally we are into the QB's that were drafted top in the top 10. And we start out with maybe the worst QB to ever win a Superbowl. Make a case for Mark Rypien all you want but Trent is the worst. Again another QB being carried buy defense and a run game.(are you seeing a pattern here)

ELI - Pick 1: I might make a case for Eli's first ring being defense and run game, but his last was purely him. He made all the throws and mangaed the game like a boss. The guy has it all and is a Hall of Fame QB now.

PEYTON - Pick 1: Colts fans im sorry but i have to do this. Peytons ring is a FLUKE. Not in the sense that he doesn't deserve it, or he didn't win it, or he isnt good enogh. In the sense that we played the worst QB in the bears have ever seen, a terrible coaching staff, and had it been a real offense that could function the game would have been different. Now let me defend myself the Peyton has never had the Defense or the Coaching Staff to get him the help he nees. The reason we all believe he is the best QB to ever play is that he made up for our organizations shortcomings. For all his success and stats he still only has one ring in his career. But how did Peyton effect our team outside his position.

My Thoughts:

Maybe paying peyton a hefty price stoped us from getting new life in the secondary.
Maybe Peyton's want to keep familiar teammates around hindered the colts from making moves.
Maybe Peyton's success on offense stopped the organization from aggressively getting defensive talent in order to try and keep the offense in full swing.
If defense and a running game wins superbowls, then where was the focus on our defense?
If defense and a running game wins championships why draft a QB to win a championship if your team has neither?
If only two of the last ten QB's to win the Superbowl were drafted in the top ten are we committing our self to the same fate as we did with Peyton? A great QB without the talent around him to win?

Now what if we keep manning for two years. Trade the luck pick for some top teir Defensive talent in the draft. Start in a new direction with the new regime. Run first, pass second, our defense is here to hit you in the mouth type of team. Then draft a Ryan Tannehill and let him sit behind a great QB for a couple of years. Let him learn and prepare with a Hall of Fame QB. Hell you could pick up Russell Wilson late in the draft and acclimate him to the NFL and turn him into a Drew Brees. Russell's only down fall is he isn't 6 foot. He has got the arm, the athleticism, the head, and is a great leader we could pick him up in the 3rd and groom him to be a franchise guy for next to nothing on our cap. Well thats all i really had let me have it colts fans.

Thanks for reading

OdnsRvns

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

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Comments

Didnt really read the entirr thing; just skimmed, but enough already...

You think trading the pick is a good idea. Fine. But for the love of God please stop with all the lame random history used to suggest not taking the best QB prospect. Kurt Warner’s success has absolutely nothing, nothing to do with Luck and how well he might do as a pro.

Lets just say best scenario for winning is introduce very good to great QB to fundamentally sound team. You know, good offensive light and strong aggressive defense.

Just not in the cards for us. We’ll take the best QB and hopefully make solid decisions going forward with the rest of the roster.

by mlc2656 on Feb 21, 2012 7:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions

Every NFL team the exact same drafting concept.

Get the best bang for your buck, the best value at whatever position you’re drafting. The expectation is that first round players will be key difference makers. If they flame out, it just may set you back a bit. Now getting key starters and playmakers in the later round is even better. Identifying talent later in the draft starts to give your team an edge. A lot of times, from my point of view anyway, its just luck. You take a flyer on a guy and if he sucks, oh well, just another non productive later round guy. But if he turns out to be Victor Cruz, everyone is calling you a genius.

Lets get back to the QBs. Any team with a HOFer drafted in the 6th round just got real fvckin lucky. Please don’t call it strategy.

by mlc2656 on Feb 21, 2012 7:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

By no means.

Am I calling drafting Tom Brady a strategy. No one could have guessed that he had the talent he did otherwise he would have been first over all. What i am saying is that teams win football games no one player. This isn’t the NBA where you can bring one guy in to make up for all your flaws. You need solid play on all three aspects., and since we need help in all three why not get the best bang for our buck by trading the pick.

by OdnsRvns on Feb 21, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions

Once Again

Stop mixing correlation with causation. Is this concept not taught in schools anymore? Good grief.

Jason Heyward wins at baseball.

by bbxxj on Feb 21, 2012 9:42 AM EST reply actions

nothing is taught in schools anymore

in high school i learned how to anticipate a lunchrooom fight, that i should half-ass everything — because it didnt take any more than that to do well, and to recognize which teachers were fucking drunk.

american schools are a joke.

i don't give autographs

by muncie_in_this on Feb 21, 2012 2:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

my god

this

by BLOODontheTRACKS on Feb 21, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think i am.

I truly believe that most of the teams above that won a championship had things in common. Good running game, Solid defensive play, and management that focused on maintaining those things. If you look at the patriots they constantly draft Defensive players early, Giants are in the same boat, along with the steelers. These three teams have been very successful in the past 10 years building defense and a run game.

by OdnsRvns on Feb 21, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions

The one thing that almost all of those teams had in common

Was a franchise QB.

www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!

by kmbryant09 on Feb 21, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions

Yep

But is that Causation or Correlation?

by OdnsRvns on Feb 24, 2012 12:54 AM EST up reply actions

The one thing in common...

Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers……………….they’re all franchise QB’s.

The Colts need a franchise QB…………badly

Andrew Luck is the best franchise QB prospect……..by a wide margin and quite possibly of the last 30 years.

The Colts select Andrew Luck.

www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!

by kmbryant09 on Feb 21, 2012 10:25 AM EST reply actions

As BBXXJ said above

Stop mixing correlation with causation. Yes those guys are franchise QB’s, but was it just them that one the superbowls or the team that was built around them. If you read above i give examples why i don’t think that each of them did it alone. Rodgers had a good D and great WR core, Rothlesberger had the worst Superbowl of any QB ever to play in one, Peyton’s was played against a terrible offense, Eli had Earth, Wind, and Fire in the back field for his first go, and well Tom is just Beastly (god i hate that guy).

by OdnsRvns on Feb 21, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions

So you agree that we need a franchise QB??

Then why would you pass up on Luck?

www.Coltsider.com
check out the new Colts blog!

by kmbryant09 on Feb 21, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions

good post kmb

by omahacolt on Feb 21, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions

/facepalm

by ohsnap12 on Feb 21, 2012 11:39 AM EST reply actions

A Word Back To The "Keep Manning Fanatics"

What will holding on Manning for 2 more seasons to steer this lousy, rebuilding team accomplish? That is the real issue. You guys are convinced that great QBs win titles by themselves and that the talent around them is immaterial. You think that with a couple of draft picks, Manning can win a Super Bowl, because “he’s Manning.” That is ridiculous. The truth is that Peyton Manning and Dan Marino, as great as they were, have 1 Super Bowl between them, and John Elway only won 2 at the end of his career after he finally got Hall of Famers at OL, WR, TE and RB.

Second, yes Manning’s contract hamstrung the Colts to a great degree, and seeing folks claim “Manning was worth that and more” frustrates me, because they certainly have no problem criticizing the other 21 players on the team when they don’t win anything. But it would behoove Irsay and the new GM to not be as accommodating to Luck’s salary demands as they were to Manning’s. Second, the new regime needs a more balanced view of building a football team. Drafting Anthony Gonzalez and Donald Brown when the Colts’ badly needed DL help probably kept the Colts from winning another SB, especially since Gonzalez and Brown didn’t exactly pan out.

Third, the idea that you can just turn Russell Wilson into Drew Brees shows that you REALLY didn’t watch that much college football, did you? Brees did the same thing that Wilson did – get a team to a Rose Bowl – despite playing at PURDUE. When Wilson was at a lesser talented team (N.C. State) he couldn’t get them past 6-6. That is the difference between a future College and NFL Hall of Fame QB (Brees) and just another guy who is going to be a backup QB in the NFL for about 5 years and then go into banking or sales or something.

The same is true of Ryan Tannehill: Tannehill is a good athlete (he played WR before being moved to QB) but there is nothing that suggests that he is capable of playing QB at a high level consistently. If Tannehill is in the draft last year, he doesn’t even go in the 1st round. He probably doesn’t even go 1st round this year if Barkley and Landry Jones don’t come out OR if Brandon Weeden is 24 instead of 32.

The Colts’ organization dropped the ball with Manning in a lot of ways. The solution to that is to learn from those errors and do better with Luck, not trying to win with the next Chad Henne or Kyle Orton.

by an_auburn_fan on Feb 21, 2012 11:53 AM EST reply actions

I agree with you expect about Brown. I think it’s taken him a couple of years to “get it” and to get a halfway decent O-line. To, this past year was his coming out party and I expect him to be the primary back for this year.

by TrueBlue87 on Feb 21, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions

keep dreaming trueblue

donald brown will never be a primary back.

by omahacolt on Feb 21, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions

we was most definitely a primary back at connecticut

i don't give autographs

by muncie_in_this on Feb 22, 2012 10:17 AM EST via Android app up reply actions

i hear ya muncie

but i am talking about the nfl

by omahacolt on Feb 22, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions

Hahahaha ooh knew what you meant

i just had to do it

i don't give autographs

by muncie_in_this on Feb 23, 2012 9:37 AM EST via Android app up reply actions

Agreed

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb2011

He ranks in the top 18 in the league in all defensive adjusted stats. He may not develop into a top tier back, but he has shown drastic improvement. He was number 5 in DVOA in the league. Pretty solid. I’m just hoping they keep the fullback for him. He improved drastically when they started using one.

by PeytonTheManning on Feb 22, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions

I think i stated this above

1. We use him to groom the new QB we draft.
2. We Use the picks we get with lucks draft pick to shore up our D.
3. We get a QB later and pay less for him to help cap room.
4. We give him one last chance to go for gold.
5. Or we bring in a young QB when our team is ready for one not when he will get crushed (AKA Bradford, Gabbert, Ponder)

Tanehill – Agreed is good athlete but to raw for an top NFL QB draft pick. If he is there in the 3rd might be a good pickup but someone will gamble on him and be disappointed with his QB skills and move him to slot.

Wilson – Agree to disagree. Yes you cant just make a drew brees, but he has got the arm, knowledge, and a chip on the shoulder to be a good player. Calling him a Orton or Henne is just terribly off. Yes brees did it at Purdue but NC state is terrible the reason they are in the ACC.

Barkley and Jones – Wont last in the NFL they are propped up by the players around them. I’m kinda glad Barkley is staying another year maybe he can become what everyone thinks he is.

by OdnsRvns on Feb 21, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions

“Grooming” only works when you have a franchise-caliber signal caller in waiting. Even though Rodgers went at 20, he was graded out in the top 5. His fall was surprising and was because of maturity/mental concerns. We know Luck has those capabilities.

Nate Dunleavy did a study proving that almost all franchise QBs come from the top 15 picks in the draft. What you’ve listed are the exceptions that prove the rule. I would also say that just using Super Bowl victories as a benchmark is a poor measuring stick because while guys like Trent Dilfer and Gus Johnson won Super Bowls, they aren’t franchise QBs in the same way guys like Dan Fouts are.

There aren’t any QBs in this years draft or next year’s draft as good as Luck. Period. And passing on Luck to hold on to the pipedream that Manning can still play at a high level is foolish. We have to remove the rose-colored glasses and face the reality that the Manning era, or at least the prime of his career, is over. It’s time to rebuild and retool.

by TrueBlue87 on Feb 21, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions

pretty much agree

The need is there and the player (Luck) is there.
If Luck turns out to be a bust then the search will continue because Manning’s ability is in question and his age works against him.
Even if they trade to pick to help the defense, those picks could also turn out to be busts, in which case nothing is solved or rebuilt.
Unless something is physically or mentally wrong with Luck, I think the Colts have to play the odds, take him and build around that platform.

by centauri on Feb 23, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions

At this point, I think all Colts fans should be excited to draft Luck. Sure if Green Bay wants to trade us Aaron Rodgers for the #1, I’m all ears, but that’s not happening. At one point I personally was all for the a trade, if there was the possibility of luring some suitor into a Ricky or Herschel type of trade, but that’s not happening either.

by steveoly32 on Feb 21, 2012 12:30 PM EST reply actions

Go Luck..embace it and stop all this dumb talk of trading the pick..you take the best player available

by armycolts25 on Feb 21, 2012 4:35 PM EST reply actions

The Luck fanatics aren't trying to hear that

Franchise QBs have a better shot to win the Super Bowl, but only he plays for a team with a strong enough defense to hold the line.

Luck had a strong running game and a pretty decent OL (DeCastro is rated as the #1 Guard prospect and Martin is a TOP 15-20 pick at LT) Unless Indianapolis addresses the O-Line in the Draft or Free Agency, Luck will not have these things around him.

We should select Luck if anyone doesn’t offer Irsay a “King’s Ransom” trade. If Manning restructures his contract while being 100% Healthy, trading the pick shouldn’t be a such bad idea.

On another note: Peyton’s ring is not a fluke as he was facing a TOP 5 defense (IIRC #2) and made adjustments along with the coaches on the sideline. If Caldwell could have made those same type of adjustments like his predecessor Dungy, The Colts would have 2 rings instead of 1

"I stepped on bullet-shells and crossed over dead bodies -Soulja Slim

by BlueHorseShoe on Feb 21, 2012 6:23 PM EST reply actions

Or

If Hank Baskett could hold onto a damn football.

by PeytonTheManning on Feb 21, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions

Or

If Hank Baskett could hold onto a damn football.

by PeytonTheManning on Feb 21, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions

None of this matters!

His name is Luck and he should have a horse shoe on his helmet. Call it ironic, cute poetic, asthetic, it just makes sense.

"If they want me to be a crazy, emotional, frenzied fan in section 603, then they can't expect me to be reasonable about the business of football"

by indylator on Feb 21, 2012 7:11 PM EST reply actions

i call it intentionally throwing most of last season

but yeah they get luck

i don't give autographs

by muncie_in_this on Feb 22, 2012 10:23 AM EST via Android app up reply actions

bbs should just ban

anyone that wants to trade the luck pick.

by omahacolt on Feb 21, 2012 8:10 PM EST reply actions

Just Wanted to Say Thanks

For all the useful post you provide to this forum. Its your dedications to facts, communication, and information that this forums could not live without. Gems like.

i disagree
no – thats a horrible idea
walter payton – was the best running back i have ever seen. doesnt mean he will help the colts next year
luck can scramble (Thanks Madden)

Or my Favorite
actually -i rarely insult anyone
Next line: i have called posts dumb, stupid and horrible. i never said i didnt say that. your reading comprehension is as bad as your posts

Your worthless. Have a nice day.

by OdnsRvns on Feb 24, 2012 12:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

27 YEARS

between Unitas and Manning. 1 year between Manning and Luck. This is why fans of other teams are mad. We have an opportunity to do something that rarely happens. The opportunity to draft a franchise qb immediately after the departure of another.

by thomasezekiel77 on Feb 21, 2012 8:12 PM EST reply actions

VERY MUCH AGREE

by javen on Feb 21, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions

Peyton Manning will never be the same player he used to be....

He is now 36, which is past the prime of qb’s. He has 4 neck surgeries or procedures or whatever the hell you want to call them. Even if he is cleared to play, he will never be the Peyton you all remember. Get over it and embrace Luck or whine about losing Manning. Nothing lasts forever. The Manning era is over.