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A Colts fan's last word on the Randy Moss trade

Don't bother Randy with the details. He just wants to get paid... er, to play for a winner.

Gee, does Mike Silver hate the Patriots or what?

This will be my last word on the Randy Moss trade to New England because, in all honesty, I really don't care that a lazy quitter who has been kicked off two NFL teams is going to a contender. Moss has been, and always will be, an inferior player to guys like Marvin, Hines Ward, Torry Holt, and even Patriots cast-off Deion Branch. No, these guys don't have Moss's talent, but unlike Moss they bring it every down, every play, every game no matter what. They make circus catches, incredible runs, and (oh, by the way) win Super Bowls. This is why I find the media ball-washing of Moss and the Patriots so funny, and it's also why I enjoyed reading Michael Silver's recent article bashing the "mystique" of the Patriots.

Before the Colts owned them, the Patriots and their fans used to sell all of us on this notion that their players were better, not just in terms of talent but in terms of character. It was as if the team had a right to win it all solely because their players and their organization were in the right. Unlike the winds that blow in Foxboro in December, this kind of wind was always just a bunch of hot air. Silver saw it that way as well, and so do many former-New England players. Silver also perfectly articulates the ignorant arrogance of the New England organization and its fans when it comes to Randy Moss's behavior the last few years:

Randy's just a fiery guy who couldn't handle the losing in Oakland; that's why he justifiably went in the tank and acted like a six-year-old. Put him in a winning situation -- and in a locker room where they know how to handle guys like that -- and he'll be instantly and completely transformed. Why else would he take a potential $6.75 million pay cut if he wasn't all about winning?
We'll get to these half-baked (oops, bad choice of words) theories in a moment. Why the wait? Put it this way, homies: I argue when I want to argue.

...

Next rationalization from the new breed of Moss apologists? That Moss, who by his own admission lost interest because the Raiders weren't winning, can be forgiven for that apparent sin because it's a sign of his competitive nature.
Really? That's an interesting way of looking at sports. Try this exercise: Imagine you're playing a pickup basketball game, and your team is trailing by a large margin and in danger of getting bounced from the court. If one of the people on your team -- say, the most talented player -- loses interest and stops trying, how do you feel about him or her as a competitor?
Have you hurled the ball against the backboard yet? Or just plain hurled?


We agree with Silver that the notions of Patriots Nation regarding Moss are so pathetically homer they make Michael Kay sound objective when he announces Yankee games for the YES network. Let us first toss aside this silly notion that Randy Moss took a pay cut to join the Patriots, and that the Patriots were the only team Moss was going to re-structure his contract for. The Oakland Raiders had no intention of paying Moss the remainder of his 2 year, $21 million dollar contract. If a trade did not happen involving Moss, he was most certainly going to get cut. Because of his recent troubles, his injuries, and the fact that he is nothing more than a failed sack of horse poop, no team was going to offer Moss more than a one-year deal worth about $3-4 million with no bonus, and loaded with incentives, which is the re-structured contract Moss currently has with New England.

So, Moss certainly did not take a pay cut to come to New England, as so many pathetic Patriots fans have desperately tried to suggest. Moss knows this is his best chance to cash in and get the one last big long term deal of his career. Rest assured, after 2007, Randy Moss will not be a Patriot, especially if he has a great season. Moss knew he was getting cut by Oakland, and a deal was worked out to get him to a team that could give him the best opportunity to cash in when 2008 rolls around. This isn't about winning a Super Bowl. If Moss cared about stuff like that, he'd work hard, lift weights, run correct routes, and not try to run over cops with his car.

And can we please stop with the Randy Moss Hall of Fame talk please! Art Monk isn't in the HoF. If he isn't, then I don't want to hear jack squat about Moss in the HoF. Monk owns all kinds of records, always produced, and is an example of what a WR should be. Unlike Moss, Monk actually won something. So please, cut the Moss HoF crap. If Monk isn't in, discussing Moss in the HoF insults the HoF and everyone in it.

Now, from a business standpoint, I totally understand New England making this move. It is a low cap risk for them. From a talent standpoint, it greatly upgrades their WR group, but in the end that means nothing. From a talent standpoint, drafting Ryan Leaf in 1998 made total sense. Ryan Leaf was always more talented than Peyton Manning.

In the NFL, talent is highly over-rated.

The risks here for New England aren't financial as much as their internal. The Patriots locker-room will not change Randy Moss. He will play hard when he feels like it. He will take plays off. He will loaf. He will complain and undermine teammates. He will cost his team a key victory. It is not a question of if, but when. Unlike players like, oh say, Deion Branch, Moss has never come through in the clutch for his teams. He has never been a leader, a guy who can be there for his team when the chips are down. In short, for all the spectacular plays he makes on the field that get press clipping, he makes an equal number of stupid plays that often cost his team a win.

Finally, with this acquisition, I don't want to hear anymore of this "Patriots mystique" crap that was force fed to us NFL fans during the dynasty years in New England; this notion that they were a high character team full of guys who would take less money just so they could win. It was always bogus, and it's nice to see many former-New England players realize this as well. Mike Silver details:

It's hard to picture Moss not being motivated to be a good soldier in New England. If he shuts up and focuses and works hard for the next nine months, he may well end up celebrating a career resurrection, enjoying the fat contract that inevitably will follow and being re-branded as a champion who restored the Patriots' winning aura. If so, everyone will say and write that the Pats, because of their emphasis on character and integrity, were able to bring out the best in Moss, who was really just a misunderstood warrior all along.

And that, of course, will be complete and utter crap.
"I'm not mad that they did this," [a] former Patriots player said. "I'm mad that for all these years, when everyone wrote that their values were different, they ate it up. They're no different than anyone else, and they never were. We had a run, and the rest is just propaganda.
"I bought into all that stuff about the 'Patriot Way,' and then when I went to [a new team], I was blown away by how loudly guys outside of the organization shot it down. They'd say, 'You guys don't do s--- different -- you've just got Tom Brady.' I argued with them at first, but looking back, there was no lower percentage of jackasses there than on any other team. Some of the guys they drafted, even in early rounds, were selfish and unreliable and horrible to have around."

Lets not forget that this is the same organization that made Ted Johnson play after they knew it was unsafe for his health for him to play.

Classy, we know.

When it is all said and done, the Moss trade makes sense for both parties. What I don't want to see is the same, tired BS coming out of Foxboro that their team and organization is made up of "high character" people. And while the Moss trade certainly upgrades the Patriots offense, it doesn't seem to address the major issues the Patriots had last year and still seem to have this year: Their old linebackers and shattered secondary. The Patriots choked away the AFC Championship game against Indy because they couldn't get to Peyton Manning, couldn't cover Dallas Clark, and they couldn't stop the run. It was evident that Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vraebel Vrabel are old, and their secondary is simply not that good. Aside from Asante Samuel (who still is unsigned despite being franchised, and has made it clear he doesn't want to play for New England), the Patriots secondary is simply not that good. Rodney Harrison is done, and while New England's first round pick Brandon Meriweather could one day replace Harrison, he is a rookie and QBs like Manning, McNair, and Palmer feast on rookie safeties.

Former-Patriots linebacker Ted Johnson

The narrative we Colt fans will hear all year will involve New England being the #1 team until Indianapolis beats them again in the playoffs. All year long, the Colts (who beat New England and went on to win the Super Bowl) will be considered second-fiddle to the Randy Moss-led Patriots, who have grabbed headlines and made sports writers happy with their free agent spending and draft day super trades.

As a Colts fan, I am a-okay with this. In fact, I'm downright giddy.

Let the Patriots and their arrogant fans bask in the warm glow of media attention that will crown them #1 when the season starts. Sadly, for them and their fans, they aren't, and the excuse-machine that often rumbles out of New England after yet another bad loss to Indy is running out of steam. These off-season moves by the Patriots have smelled of desperation. They know Indy owns them, and will continue to own them as long as Manning is under center. New England is making uncharacteristic moves to try and do something about it. In the end, it will result in the same: Another loss to the Colts, and more conspiracy theories from the pathetic boobs in New England (Roger Goodell wants Manning to win because Archie Manning secretly runs the NFL from his underground bunker in Mississippi). Moss or no Moss, this team does not have the defense to stop Peyton Manning and a Colts offense described by John Clayton of ESPN as "scary good" after drafting Anthony Gonzalez. The great irony here would be if Gonzalez, a rookie, ends up providing more production for Indianapolis than Randy Moss does for New England.

I still think the NFL is a world owned by Indianapolis and New England, and everyone else is living in it. But it is now clear that the organization that prides itself in high character people, and backs it up, is not New England. Indianapolis has usurped them in that title, and many others. While I also don't think the Colts are full of angels (I've already written about my dislike for Tony Dungy's anti-gay comments, insulting Colts fans everywhere), you do not see the same arrogance and BS exported out of Indy that you saw spewing from New England. Now, they look desperate, trying anything they can to get back at the team that has owned them two years in a row. The Patriots are an excellent organization that evaluates talent very well and wins a lot of football games. Just don't sell me on the hollier-than-thou's team crap.

It has been, and always will be, a steaming pile of Moss.

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Interesting take
I think this is an interesting take, but as a long time Patriots fan who enjoys reading contrary POV's, I think I need to point some things out.  

First of all, the Pats don't need him to be a leader, they just need him to run down the field.  They have enough leaders on that team already who have carried them through superbowls and the longest win streak in NFL history.  The value of Moss is not that he is going to be a leader on or off the field, but that his skills, even if they have decreased, will be enough to force defenses to plan around the Patriots WR corp for the first time in over a year.  

When it comes to the Character thing, that's a creation of the media by and large, media who cannot get interviews with the majority of the team, and need to figure out why they win - the Boston media hates Belichick, and there are not a lot of pro bowlers on the team, so it must be something else - Character.  That's a load of crap, and anyone who has paid attention over the last few years knows that.  Brian Cox, Rodney Harrison (who doesn't get voted dirtiest player of the year because he is a saint), Corey Dillon were all regarded as cancers, mental patients, and Dillon had a rap sheet the size of a phone book.  As far as off the field antics, I know plenty of Colts players have been involved in domestic abuse or DUI stunts, but I cannot even remember the last time a guy who played for the Pats got into a single ounce of trouble off the field.  

The magic of the Pats is that they take these guys and plug them into a lockerroom full of guys who win, and expect to win.  Either they fit in, and stay, like Cox, Rodney and Dillon did, or they don't and leave, like Gabriel did last year.  A lot of the vets on the team, as well as the new signings love to win, and will take less money to do so.  Guys like Seymour, Brady, much of the O line, Bruschi, Brown, Vrabel (spell it right!) have accepted less money then they could on the market, and guys like Stallworth, and Thomas this year took smaller salaries to play with NE.    

by CGM on May 3, 2007 10:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting Take Rebut
First of all, the Pats don't need him to be a leader, they just need him to run down the field.

So, you're making a case for how he's going to be a problem actually. Remember, this is the guy who "quits" on routes.

...but that his skills, even if they have decreased...

And you left out "and is willing to actually put forth the effort".

Brian Cox, Rodney Harrison (who doesn't get voted dirtiest player of the year because he is a saint), Corey Dillon were all regarded as cancers, mental patients, and Dillon had a rap sheet the size of a phone book.

You seem to be implying that Moss doesn't. That is expressly not the case -

I cannot even remember the last time a guy who played for the Pats got into a single ounce of trouble off the field.

You have the shortest memory. Ever.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/west/2006/07/former_patriots.html
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/NE/9532922
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/NE/6782344
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2644054
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2532587

The magic of the Pats

Doesn't exist any more than the "magic of the Steelers" or the "magic of the Packers".

A lot of the vets on the team, as well as the new signings love to win,

And every other NFL active roster player (all 1,643 of them) don't "love to win".

Guys like Seymour, Brady, much of the O line, Bruschi, Brown, Vrabel (spell it right!) have accepted less money then they could on the market, and guys like Stallworth, and Thomas this year took smaller salaries to play with NE.

Anecdotal at best. Many players restructure contracts to make cap space. It's a common occurence. Manning did it himself this year:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2773817

So, my point is. There's nothing special or unusual about the Patriots. Yes the Patriots are one of the premier franchises in the league right now - And deserve to be considered in the echelon of Green Bay, and Pittsburgh. But at the core, they are not that different from any other franchise.

by PaytonMenning on May 3, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ding Ding
We have a winner!
Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on May 3, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stallworth
didn't take less money to play in NE. They offered him more than anyone else. The Eagles were only offering a one year deal at less the money that the one year deal the Pats more or less gave him.

No one else was reported to have even made an offer.

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on May 3, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong
Um, um, um wrong.  Miami offered him more money.  You may want to get your facts straight first.

by InBradyWeTrust on May 3, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Facts?
Where? Where did you see this? Where is this fact you speak of? Help me get my "facts" straight by showing me them.
Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on May 4, 2007 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rebuttal
"So, you're making a case for how he's going to be a problem actually. Remember, this is the guy who "quits" on routes."

And he can be cut at little or no cost to the Pats if he does.  Sure, the signing is a risk, and almost everyone acknowledges that, but the upside is worth the risk of a 4th rounder and a few million.  

"You seem to be implying that Moss doesn't."

Not at all, in fact I am implying the opposite.  Many players who are known as head cases or have long rap sheets have come into NE and thrived and prospered.  Thats my point.  

"Anecdotal at best. Many players restructure contracts to make cap space. It's a common occurence."

I am not talking about restructuring a contract, but rather the amount they sign for in the first place.  Its common knowledge that Thomas passed up a million a year from SF to sign with NE.  Stallworth was also worth far more then the 1 year `prove it' deal he signed with the Pats.  

As for the links you posted...
Link 1 - Key word in the article being `former'
Link 2 - A guy who was traded for and quickly cut.  
Link 3 - A guy who never saw the field and was immediately released.  
Link 4 - It's the coaches kid, not a player.  Is Dungy a bad father considering what happened with his son?  Come on, that's pretty tasteless and sad.  
Link 5 - occurred before the player was ever signed by the Pats, and has nothing to do with my point.

So basically what I see is a couple players who were bottom of the depth chart, and were immediately released after their incidents, one who had left the team a year prior, and one who got in trouble before he signed with the Pats.  None of that has a single iota of relevance to my point, and in fact strengthens it.  The guys who got into trouble that were actually part of the team at the time were backups at best, and were immediately cut.  The other two had either left the team, or it occurred before they got to the team.  And lets forget your sad dig at Belichick.  

by CGM on May 3, 2007 1:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

CGB
Just wanted you to know, in case there is a misunderstanding, while I disagree with your assessment of things, I appreciate a Pats fans POV.

Same is true for InBradyWeTrust, but he already knows that.

Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on May 3, 2007 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
I always like posting on other fans sites, becuase its always good to get a different POV, and because we all tend to have better understandings of our own teams.  It lets everyone get a better idea about the status of the teams.  

by CGM on May 3, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re-rebuttal
So basically what I see is a couple players who were bottom of the depth chart, and were immediately released after their incidents, one who had left the team a year prior, and one who got in trouble before he signed with the Pats.  None of that has a single iota of relevance to my point, and in fact strengthens it.  The guys who got into trouble that were actually part of the team at the time were backups at best, and were immediately cut.  The other two had either left the team, or it occurred before they got to the team.  And lets forget your sad dig at Belichick.  

Want to talk about classy? Try comparing a coach's kid who smoked pot, to a coach's kid who committed suicide. One does reflect poorly on the parent in my eyes, while the other does not. Suicide is most typically the result of depression, which is a disease. Smoking pot is not, it's a choice.

Also, now you've gone from stating that (and I summarize) "I can't remember anyone on the Pats roster" to, (and I summarize) "Well, those guys don't count". Must be nice to make up the rules as you go along.

Now, I personally will not argue the point that the Moss trade was good or bad. That's a matter of opinion (in my opinion, bad). However, to think that the Patriots organization is somehow "better" than the rest and can do more to "reform" Moss is short-sighted and asinine.

by PaytonMenning on May 3, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rebuttal
"Want to talk about classy? Try comparing a coach's kid who smoked pot, to a coach's kid who committed suicide. One does reflect poorly on the parent in my eyes, while the other does not. Suicide is most typically the result of depression, which is a disease. Smoking pot is not, it's a choice."

And I believe my entire comment was that it is deplorable to bring up a coaches children in an attempt to smear the team.  Besides, smoking pot?  Wow, that makes him as bad a 75% of all kids in high school these days.  

"Also, now you've gone from stating that (and I summarize) "I can't remember anyone on the Pats roster" to, (and I summarize) "Well, those guys don't count". Must be nice to make up the rules as you go along."

Ummm...yeah, I stand by my statement.  Considering how weak those things were, since only one of them had anything to do with a player who was actually on the team at the time, and who was released immediately after.  The other ones were guys who were NOT ON THE TEAM WHEN THEY GOT IN TROUBLE.  That is exactly my point - people who are on the Pats team do not get in trouble, and if they do, they are gone.  Past problems are forgiveable if tehy keep it together while in NE.

by CGM on May 3, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To wit:
You said "none" and you said "played". You set the bar very low, and I'm holding you to it. Sorry if you don't like it.

by PaytonMenning on May 3, 2007 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Semantics
Now we are just getting into semantics here.  What I meant to say was pretty clear, and sorry if you got confused.  

by CGM on May 3, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No .... we're not ...
Semantics is when multiple parties could reasonably have different meanings for the same set of words.

I think the average man would read your sentence "but I cannot even remember the last time a guy who played for the Pats got into a single ounce of trouble off the field." and would accept that I have cited at least 5 cases where you are wrong about that.

by PaytonMenning on May 3, 2007 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blue
You are entitled to your opinion, and this is your site.  But your knowledge is really weak.  The Colts beat the Pats in the AFC Championship because Colvin got hurt, Seymour got hurt, Bruschi got hurt and Hawkins got hurt.  Basically, the game you saw in the first half was nowhere to be seen because of this.  In the first half when we had our full team,  we got to Manning, hit him and hit him a ton.  Then the injuries started to happen.  Did you beat us in the second half because all of a sudden we sucked or because our players that abused you guys in the first half decided to stay in the locker room? Well, kind of as we had third string linebackers trying to cover Clark and nobody rushing Manning as they were all injured.  So, give me a break aas to the Pats are old, we own them crap.  Wow, you have won the past three times we played.  Impressive.

You can determine in your own mind that any of the Pats moves were bad, but unfortunately that is not the case.  The Colts lost both starting corners and one of their better linebackers.  You must be high if you think the additions we made are not going to give your defense nightmares.  Who exactly is going to cover Moss?  Oh, I forgot according to you he sucks.  Who is going to cover Stallworth?  Damion Hughes?  Well, guess what?  No longer can you guys bring Bob Sanders up in the box to stop the run.  because when you do, we go vertical on you.  Do you understand football and how it works?

I am sorry, but I believe in Belichick and Pioli.  I should as they have three super bowl rings.  In addition, Asante Samuel has not said he wants out of New England so badly.  He wants to get paid an enormous amount of money and will go to whatever team that is.

And exactly how does any move they have made look DESPERATE?  Management looked at the deficiencies on the team and addressed them.  They got a top tier linebacker for a decent price.  The added 3 good receivers without breaking the bank.  Filling needs is not desperation, it is good business.  Your thought that it is desperation sounds a bit like jealousy to me.  What has your braintrust done to improve?  I know you are jealous that the media has crowned the Pats already but haven't they done that the prior four years...crowned Indy the pre-season champions?  They were right once...

You can ban me if you want but it just needs to be said.  You are a freaking idiot.  We are going to stomp Indy next year.  No doubt about it.  And, when we do I will be sure to let you know.  In fact, I would be surprised if you guys make the playoffs as your "tough" division is improving.  

by InBradyWeTrust on May 3, 2007 1:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

haha
I'm sorry your guys all got hurt last year - I didn't realize that was the Colts problem?

Maybe it's because you put guys on the roster (Stallworth anyone) who are injury prone.  Don't give me crap about how Stallworth took less money to be on the Patriots...he took less money because he's on his third team in three years and hasn't been healthy for a full season in his career yet.

So I'm not too worried about Moss or Stallworth in the playoffs.  Stallworth will be out for the year by the 4th or 5th week and Moss and his antics will have him done not much later.  

And how can you call it anything but desperate?  Taking players that everyone knows are sub-par but have big names?  That's not filling needs that's trying to be relevant...when youve lost three times in a row.  And yes that is impressive thank you.

by jochexum on May 3, 2007 1:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

put guys on the roster that are injury prone?
Are you for real?  Sub par players?  Really?  Sure, I guess Moss is a sub-par player as is Welker and Thomas and Stallworth.

Three times in a row?  How many in a row did you guys lose to us, hmmmm?  or, did you forget those humiliations.  Final score:

Brady - 5 rings
Peyton - 1 ring

One and done.  Enjoy it Colt fans.

by InBradyWeTrust on May 3, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stallworth
is injury prone. You can't deny that.
Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on May 3, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

of course they'll still deny it...
he's a patriot now, all his problems are going to disappear rolls eyes

sorry, but i live in Baton rouge and follow the Saints as closely as I follow the colts...and theres a reason that stallworth as one of the fastest receivers in the game, is playing for his 3rd team in three years

so yes. sub-par...thats what you call players who miss half the season or quit during games (moss)

by jochexum on May 3, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

jealousy
is not a good trait.  Just because he told Philly to pound sand, you have all bad things to say about him.

by InBradyWeTrust on May 3, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

philly?
Why would I care what he did with Philly?  I haven't liked Stallworth since the Saints drafted him.  

I wish him and the Patriots the best of luck (except against the Colts) but I just think he's overrated.  He's a great deep threat with his speed but he just can't manage to stay on the field enough to be productive.

by jochexum on May 3, 2007 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Philly
Didn't even offer him a contract! Who told who to pound sand?

Someone needs to get their facts straight.

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on May 4, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a couple of articles
Nobody told me to pound sand, I was saying Stallworth told the Eagles to pound sand.  Here are a couple of links to refresh the Eagle and Dolphin fans that they both WANTED Stallworth...until he chose New England.  Then, he is a slouch...

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/nflinsider/2007/03/d_stallworth_chooses_patriots.html?nav=rss_blog

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2007/03/dolphins_lose_o.html

by InBradyWeTrust on May 4, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stallworth
You are aware that Stallworth has played more games over the last several years then Deion Branch has right?  So they essentially replaced one injury prone WR with a slightly less injury prone reciever.  

You say desperate, I say kid in a candy store.  The Pats entered free agency with a boatload of cash, and were more then happy to scoop up a bunch of free agent WR's for small contracts that gave the Pats the option to cut them at the end of the year if they didnt work out.  If only half the WR signings pan out, it will still have been a good year.  

The Pats make signings because they can afford them.  The Colts are sitting and watching players leave, and relying on draft picks to fill the void and provide depth because thats their only choice.  

by CGM on May 3, 2007 2:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well
"The Pats make signings because they can afford them.  The Colts are sitting and watching players leave, and relying on draft picks to fill the void and provide depth because thats their only choice."

Hows come the Pats get credit when they do this?  Their motto for the past several years was build through the draft, sign mid-level free agents, stay away from the big names, and not be afraid to let veterans go if they want more money than they're worth.  Everyone praised the Colts for doing this.  That is why the Colts and Pats have been at the top of the league the past several years.  Now the Pats go against that and suddenly they're geniuses.  Every year, the Colts offseason motto is "How can they win with all of their veterans leaving?"  Well, we'll show you how.

Prediction:  Moss isn't used to actually working, and his bum hamstring will be gone by the time the season rolls around.  If he's lucky he'll be back just in time to have 7 catches for 60 yards and no TDs for the Colts/Pats game.

by the21eraser on May 4, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Signings
"That is why the Colts and Pats have been at the top of the league the past several years.  Now the Pats go against that and suddenly they're geniuses."

The Pats have done this for years, and because of the strict manner in which they were willing to cut away players who wanted more money then the front office felt they were worth, they have been able to build up a huge amount of cap space.  

The Pats have never thought twice about splurging for a big free agent.  Rosie Colvin, Dillon, Harrison, Duane Starks, Derrick Mason, Ty Law, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor etc.  They see a big name guy they feel is worth the money, and they will spend it.  Much of the core of the team certainly is those drafted players, and low budget no name free agents, but they always bring in the big names when it suits them.  

by CGM on May 4, 2007 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree
well put, again.

by InBradyWeTrust on May 5, 2007 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indy now the "good" face of the NFL?
I still think the NFL is a world owned by Indianapolis and New England, and everyone else is living in it. But it is now clear that the organization that prides itself in high character people, and backs it up, is not New England.

Really?  What about Rhodes and Reid?  I understand Rhodes is gone, but he left...Indy did not release him.  When is the last time a Patriot has been arrested, while a member of the team?

by InBradyWeTrust on May 3, 2007 2:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

See the list below ...
You obviously don't read very well.

by PaytonMenning on May 3, 2007 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

where is that
jackass

by InBradyWeTrust on May 3, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Insults
Ok, ok. Let's knock off the insults. We all agree here that the Colts and Patriots own the NFL. It's a matter of who is #1 or #2.
Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on May 3, 2007 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In this thread ...
Look down through this thread.

It's right there in black and white.

by PaytonMenning on May 3, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please refer to the following
as to which team has more points on the PFT turd watch...

http://www.profootballtalk.com/turdwatch.htm

by InBradyWeTrust on May 3, 2007 3:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Patriots off-season...
reminds me of Johnny Cash's "One Piece at a Time."

Someone clever could adapt the lyrics.

by will on May 3, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yikes
This thread sure has gotten ugly. Look, I'm a die-hard Colts fan, but I still respect the hell out of the Pats. I don't like Bill B. Frankly, I can't stand the man and think he's the epitome of "bad loser". But he's a football wizard. Better in-game coach than Dungy. I think Brady's a great leader. But I think Peyton's a better QB and if he'd had Brady's defense during the '01-'04 years he'd have a couple more rings. The Pats are a great organization and I think they do have a great bunch of talent now.

That said, I'm just sad that the Pats have resorted to getting bad character guys instead of building their team the way they and the Colts both have in the past. It takes away from the rivalry a bit, if you ask me. Does it make them a better team? I don't know...yet. No one does. They'll be one of the three best teams in the AFC for sure. So will the Colts. The Chargers have more talent than both of them, but they have no idea what they're doing when it comes to big games. That's why Colts-Pats is inevitable, again.

I just wish both fans could be realists. The Pats and Colts rivalry is as close to even now as it has ever been. The Pats have more rings and overall wins, but the Colts have the momentum and the newfound championship intangibile they so sorely lacked in the past. Neither team is that far ahead of the other in terms of talent and mostly likely both games we play against each other this season will go down to the wire just like they always do, except for the '04 playoff game (won by the Pats) and the '05 regular season game (won by the Colts).

by BSanders37 on May 3, 2007 6:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

moss
  considering moss has never done anything on an AFC team i don't see why everyone is so worried about him.  he did best with a QB who could heave the ball out there and he would make a circus catch to bring it in... not exactly Brady's style, which is why i don't understand this signing.  Moss played in the NFC, which has never been as tough as the AFC during his career.  Let's see what happens when he plays a tough team... assuming he stays healthy.. how many games has he actually played in the last few years.  i just wonder about the pats signing an aging player, with injury trouble and a history of problems.  this one could really come back to bite them in the ass.  they would have been better off i think going with the young talent they had and adding in the draft with the 2 first round picks they had... their off season moves with moss and adalius thomas seem rather uncharacteristic, thought thomas is at least understandable with the age and injuries to their defense (which brady notwithstanding has been the better half of their team.)  seems like a smack in the face too to someone like Asante samuel that they won't sign him to a decent long term contract but they will bring in thomas and moss and others...

by bluegirl on May 3, 2007 7:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Asante Samuel
does NOT WANT A DECENT CONTRACT.  What do you people not understand about that?  He wants Nate Clements money (of which, Nate Clements is not worth).  Look, Samuel is a decent corner.  But he certainly is not a Champ Bailey type.  He had ONE good year.  He has also been tagged which means he will earn $8 million next year.  For a player of his caliber, that is fair.  They have offered him upwards of $6 mill a year.  That is also fair...Asante wants a ton of money.  In fact he has a tattoo that says "get paid".

Comparing him to the free agents they brought in is just ridiculous.  They paid fair value for Thomas.  In fact, they paid LESS than what San Fran was willing to pay.  And as for the money they spent on Moss, did you look at his deal?  3 Million...and it is a one year deal as is Stallworth's.  Sounds like a bargain.  So, Samuel believes there are other teams willing to pay a ton for him.  Why have they not offered him a deal?  I understand he is restricted, but if he is all world like he claims to be, someone should snag a shutdown corner no matter the cost, right?

by InBradyWeTrust on May 4, 2007 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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